I grew up in the South, and have been thinking similar thoughts. What if we had held Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and the rest of the traitors accountable for the war, instead of letting them live out peaceful lives and putting up statues to honor them? Jailed them, forced them to pay restitution to the Union army soldiers...What if we had enforced Reconstruction and not weasled out, letting the traitors take back the reins of power in Secessia? From there, all the way to no one being held accountable for the financial crisis (disaster) of 2008 - and then J6.
Most of us ants doing the work of the nation don't get away with wrongdoing, from speeding to late payment on a credit card.
YES it is past time to hold those in power accountable. From every government worker (his cabinet and their enablers) to Mike Johnson (withholding the Epstein files) to the CEOs and CFOs who facilitate the movement of all the dirty money.
And then, the Constitution needs some re-write: dump the electoral college; term limits for Supreme Court justices; outlaw financial contributions (what, really, does it cost to send out emails begging for $ every day? It's not like ya gotta pay for the paper and stamps any more...). I'm sure there's more, but that's a start.
agreed.. too, Mike Johnson holding up the "legal seating of an elected Representative".. Where were our voices, our outrage?! the obstruction of a state's voice.. That action should not have been allowed, it should not stand sans expressed outrage!
I’m not sure we could have jailed them all — hundreds of thousands of people. Their families too? It gets kind of dicey and has broad ramifications. Perhaps leadership & ringleaders to slow their roll.
As you say, the Union dropped the ball right out of the gate by letting them take back the reigns of power. Why did was there no timetable or need to earn the rights of citizenship?
President Andrew Johnson believed once the slavery was eliminated the slaveholders could return to the Union as good citizens, leaving the social hierarchy basically as it was: former slaveholder class in charge, all others (including most whites who had lower social status) under their rule. He made no provision for Black southerners to participate in society as citizens because he saw them as less capable than all others.
So few of our non MAGA electeds (and still quite a few citizens as well) are acting with the understanding and urgency that the moment requires. We are in a civil war. Only one side seems prepared for the battle.
And remember, “no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.”
Stuart the Dems did put in huge reforms. The IRA along with the CHIPS ACT were the most transformative pieces of legislation since FDR was president. What derailed it was not getting it done fast enough so all Americans could feel it because we move painfully slow and time wasn’t on our side.
When Trump was elected, the first thing I thought about was our 250th anniversary. Since we no longer have a democracy, I think that celebration needs to be put off for when Trump and his cronies have been defeated and imprisoned. This is not our 250th anniversary, but I hope we get to celebrate it some time in the near future.
I feel your pain and passion, Nancy.. What if we were to have a HUGE turnout across the country on behalf of Democracy and the Constitution, sans a self-anointed king and company?
I grew up in the South, and have been thinking similar thoughts. What if we had held Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and the rest of the traitors accountable for the war, instead of letting them live out peaceful lives and putting up statues to honor them? Jailed them, forced them to pay restitution to the Union army soldiers...What if we had enforced Reconstruction and not weasled out, letting the traitors take back the reins of power in Secessia? From there, all the way to no one being held accountable for the financial crisis (disaster) of 2008 - and then J6.
Most of us ants doing the work of the nation don't get away with wrongdoing, from speeding to late payment on a credit card.
YES it is past time to hold those in power accountable. From every government worker (his cabinet and their enablers) to Mike Johnson (withholding the Epstein files) to the CEOs and CFOs who facilitate the movement of all the dirty money.
And then, the Constitution needs some re-write: dump the electoral college; term limits for Supreme Court justices; outlaw financial contributions (what, really, does it cost to send out emails begging for $ every day? It's not like ya gotta pay for the paper and stamps any more...). I'm sure there's more, but that's a start.
Thank you, Diana. A good initial list on the rewrite...and I especially appreciate your precise thinking on that Civil War history on forward.
agreed.. too, Mike Johnson holding up the "legal seating of an elected Representative".. Where were our voices, our outrage?! the obstruction of a state's voice.. That action should not have been allowed, it should not stand sans expressed outrage!
I’m not sure we could have jailed them all — hundreds of thousands of people. Their families too? It gets kind of dicey and has broad ramifications. Perhaps leadership & ringleaders to slow their roll.
As you say, the Union dropped the ball right out of the gate by letting them take back the reigns of power. Why did was there no timetable or need to earn the rights of citizenship?
President Andrew Johnson believed once the slavery was eliminated the slaveholders could return to the Union as good citizens, leaving the social hierarchy basically as it was: former slaveholder class in charge, all others (including most whites who had lower social status) under their rule. He made no provision for Black southerners to participate in society as citizens because he saw them as less capable than all others.
That is a specific aspect we need to ponder.
Outstanding comprehensive nice and lengthy discussion between great minds on incredibly critical topics!
One of the best discussions anywhere lately!
Good to see both of you laugh.
We need humor and laughter especially now.
I am very grateful for Stuart and Steven’s reflective statement:
“We need Reform of our systems, not restoration”
I would love to see specific recommendations for Reform.
Perhaps your next discussion?
💙🇺🇸💙
Excellent conversation. Thank you both!!
So few of our non MAGA electeds (and still quite a few citizens as well) are acting with the understanding and urgency that the moment requires. We are in a civil war. Only one side seems prepared for the battle.
And remember, “no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.”
Would you be willing to give me permission to share this along with the link to your article ?
Of course.
Thanks Steven & Stuart: A great rap session.
Stuart the Dems did put in huge reforms. The IRA along with the CHIPS ACT were the most transformative pieces of legislation since FDR was president. What derailed it was not getting it done fast enough so all Americans could feel it because we move painfully slow and time wasn’t on our side.
Yes, and the Dems had a couple wolves in sheep’s clothing who stalled & watered down what was able to pass. ☹️
When Trump was elected, the first thing I thought about was our 250th anniversary. Since we no longer have a democracy, I think that celebration needs to be put off for when Trump and his cronies have been defeated and imprisoned. This is not our 250th anniversary, but I hope we get to celebrate it some time in the near future.
I feel your pain and passion, Nancy.. What if we were to have a HUGE turnout across the country on behalf of Democracy and the Constitution, sans a self-anointed king and company?
A protest on July 4th!