Simple answer: No, we can't get back to facts. Not as long as MAGA world - aided and abetted by trump, Miller, and the rest of the hate-filled right wing media has their agenda to push.
And when some people in the public sphere tried to say some facts - such as Kirk was a victim of a world he helped create? They get fired.
So. Hm. Let’s see. Didn’t Kellyanne Conway, special adviser to djt, introduce the concept of “alternative facts” as if that was somehow a valid and viable concept, and as equally important as “just the facts, ma’am”? That sure turned out well.
And now people claim that “their truth” is “THE TRUTH” instead of, let’s say, a personal opinion.
Meanwhile, enters AI, stage right, and well, it’s gets a little dicey, like we’re in an extended episode of the “twilight zone”.
Though often said, it always bears repeating that if you love your money, your job and/or your power more than you love your families and children, nothing about our tragic times will ever change. It is easy to hate but love takes work.
We can get back. If I were a young, Democratic Senator, I'd make a public display of literally walking across the aisle, and shaking hands with a young Republican and boldly announce, "IT STOPS NOW. AND WE'RE GOING TO DO IT!" We have to do something different and we need actors who don't care about social media backlash and perhaps are even willing to give up their jobs. A fanciful dream or delusion but it's the only logical next step or we head into even more dangerous chaos.
And the publicity around the attempt would be phenomenal. No standing there talking to a camera to draw attention to myself (al Ted Cruz and Cory Booker). And I'd keep my hand out until someone took me up on it.
If a young Republican politician were hoping for a long term political future they wouldn't be caught dead shaking a Democrats hand. The Right wing "main stream" media would vilify them as would Nick Fuentes, Lara Loomer and Joe, it would be political suicide.
I would find one or stand in the aisle until one came up to me. Again not sure if it's just a dream or delusion but we have to do something different and this is an opportunity. Sad that a murder of someone has to be considered an opportunity but so be it.
Yep. Don't care. Doesn't change my mind at all. If I was a Dem in the Senate I'd do it. Not sure it would work but I'd stand there with my hand out until A Republican shook it and promised to work with me. And if no one did well then at least we'd know what our fate was.
I find your words particularly wise today. Yes, we have to continue to commit to facts. You have a way of saying what needs to be said without inciting further rage. You clearly communicate the gravity of our situation, but you do not inflame it. Thank you. It is a very exhausting time, but we are lost and really not helpful if we stay in a rage. My candle of hope has been flickering lately, but I know I have to give it oxygen and not let it totally go out. thank you for helping with that. Got to keep moving forward in this sinister time. Keep shining the light.
I recall in my yourger days whe the word 'propaganda' was bantered around on the news it was always in reference to rogue regimes like Russia, North Korea and others. Never did we ever think of it existing in our own media or political discourse. But here we are, on steroids.
Yep. So. Hm. Let’s see. Didn’t Kellyanne Conway, special adviser to djt, introduce the concept of “alternative facts” as if that was somehow a valid and viable concept, and as equally important as “just the facts, ma’am”? That sure turned out well.
And now people claim that “their truth” is “THE TRUTH” instead of, let’s say, a personal opinion. Sounds like BS, (or propaganda), to me.
Meanwhile, enters AI, stage right, and well, it gets a little dicey, like we’re in an extended episode of the “twilight zone”.
What I have found the most productive, is to ask gentle, sincere QUESTIONS, from a genuine CURIOSITY. It has a way of refocusing their attention to what they KNOW, instead of the TALKING POINTS they are perhaps repeating.
MAGA doesn't worry about facts. Lies, like bad news, travel further, faster and last a long time. Some, never go away. Besides, it takes a calm demeanor to articulate the truth, but lies you can yell at the top of your lungs. Picture J6 with small groups, sitting cross-legged, in circles, discussing facts; instead of busting windows, attacking policemen and erecting a gallows.
Yep. So. Hm. Let’s see. Didn’t Kellyanne Conway, special adviser to djt, introduce the concept of “alternative facts” as if that was somehow a valid and viable concept, and as equally important as “just the facts, ma’am”? That sure turned out well.
And now people claim that “their truth” is “THE TRUTH” instead of, let’s say, a personal opinion. Sounds like BS, (or propaganda), to me.
Meanwhile, enters AI, stage right, and well, it gets a little dicey, like we’re in an extended episode of the “twilight zone”.
I don't think we can get back to reason and truth until we have consensus from the Fourth Estate to factual reporting:
1) Stop sane-washing the Felon's speech.
2) Report FACTS without opinion,
3) Stop "both sides-ism." Again, use factual evidence to report events as they are, no matter who is involved.
4) Return the Fairness Doctrine: if one side runs BS ads, the other side must have equal time to counter.
5) Pass legislation to fund communities to restart their local newspapers, again with true journalistic reporting, with opinions limited to the Opinion pages. Community newspapers used to be where everyone read the same reporting of events, a communal set of facts.
6) PLEASE RETURN CIVICS EDUCATION TO SCHOOLS.
None of these things will happen in the foreseeable future. The Republican Party has abandoned all principles and duties to their constituents to maintain a stranglehold on power. money is in fear mongering, and the main news outlets have bent the knee to the Felon to report only what he allows. Until the GOP has some people who regain their spines and honor their oaths to the Constitution, this regime will continue to fan the flames of violence.
When did the line become so blurry? Following is my reply to Steven’s post…
Yep. So. Hm. Let’s see. Didn’t Kellyanne Conway, special adviser to djt, introduce the concept of “alternative facts” as if that was somehow a valid and viable concept, and as equally important as “just the facts, ma’am”? That sure turned out well.
And now people claim that “their truth” is “THE TRUTH” instead of, let’s say, a personal opinion. Sounds like BS, or propaganda, to me.
Meanwhile, enters AI, stage right, and well, it’s gets a little dicey, like we’re in an extended episode of the “twilight zone”.
Keeping clear focus on facts keeps us sane. Failure to remain in touch with reality is the very definition of insanity.
The election of DJT in November 2024 proved that a substantial minority of American voters had lost their minds. Another substantial minority did not bother to vote. Only a third of eligible voters showed sanity.
Insane people cannot govern themselves. They are not competent. (“Non compos mentis” is the Latin phrase.)
So, you ask the crucial question: can Americans still govern themselves, or are we lost to insanity and lawless tyranny?
Methinks we have officially entered the extended version of the “Twilight Zone”
And we can thank Kellyanne Conway for introducing the concept of “alternative facts, as if that’s some sort of valid concept equal to FACTS and TRUTH, instead of someone’s personal opinion.
“If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it be all those than that people worry over it. … Give the people contests they win by remembering the words to more popular songs or the names of state capitals or how much corn Iowa grew last year. Cram them full of noncombustible data, chock them so damned full of 'facts' they feel stuffed, but absolutely 'brilliant' with information. Then they'll feel they're thinking, they'll get a sense of motion without moving. And they'll be happy, because facts of that sort don't change.” ~ Ray Bradbury, “Fahrenheit 451”
The best way to return to facts is for those of us who can discern what is factual to not give up and go silent. The cracks in the brainwashing on the right are beginning to form. Just put facts out there as calmly and non judgemental and kindly as possible. Over time, as people realize they are also damaged by this mess we're on, enough will wake up. It's already happening, but be patient with people. Deprogramming yourself from a cult is never speedy.
The alleged shooter, Tyler James Robinson, comes from a Republican family, though Tyler is not registered to any party. His father is a retired sheriff in Washington County, Utah. There are photos of Tyler and his family with guns. Tyler Robinson dressed as Donald Trump for Halloween: a devout supporter, it would seem, who donated to Donald Trump in 2020. Tyler, we know, hated Charlie Kirk because he was not far enough to the right.
Grifting to turn grief into grievance, manipulating the many’s mourning, Donald Trump solicits rage that he can exploit for violence—before there is any proof the left contributed to the shooting. The facts do not matter to Trump. That is irresponsible leadership from Trump. Republican members in Congress mimic their leader in jumping to conclusions whose only foundation is a pack of prior Trump lies. They are all written Evans history tells us they are deluded cultists. Gross irresponsibility of this magnitude is criminal malfeasance.
It is Trump who constantly and vociferously demonizes the left with his rhetoric. He does not seek to quench the Nation’s anger, to break with violence. He seeks to inflame any given moment, stoking the flames well before investigation uncovers any facts at all. It is he and Kirk that traded in vile, demonizing, and inflammatory rhetoric designed to incite violence. They both traded in an inflammatory speech to monetize the anger they created. The cult no longer has the intellectual ability to rationalize the moment.
These two people monetized their hostility like the money changers they are. They gaslighted the rest of us whenever a fire broke out, and they simultaneously fanned those flames while pouring gasoline on the fire.
History dictates that the shooter will be a Republican supporter. They are all angry white men with right leanings. EVERY ONE! If you do not see that, yours is a delusional world. Have you paid no attention at all to the political and racist violence of last decade? If so, you know the party of violence. I gathered a list for you. https://hotbuttons.substack.com/p/bilious-hate-mongering?r=3m1bs
Today to our building group email I asked if others had found any places in our DC neighborhood to get COVID vaccinations with a script or if 65+. (Nope. DC is on the ‘no vax’ list.) Lots of alt suggestions until one person wrote a screed of “absolute facts” about the harm of the vaccinations.
The short answer is “no” because as others have stated, “alternative facts” are what this entire regime and movement keep putting forth. Yes, here others wrote with links to _real_ facts about vaccinations. Still given measles outbreaks and deaths, we’re too far away from reality.
Yes. We must focus on the facts. The more wild the other spreads conspiracy theories, the more the truth is needed. Most people, and I talk with 100 people a week in my work, on day to day interactions just want everything toned down.
But a broader picture, is this about Mr. Kirk, or is this a reaction to the radical approach to politics that he inspired. Yes he talked to people in open debate. But yes, you can find his online videos spewing blatantly racist positions. He said, when he sees an African American in a job, he asks himself did they deserve it or are they an unqualified DEI hire. I can’t imagine walking around with that running through my head.
I saw him as a provocateur, someone who fires up his side. I feel for the loss of his family who lost him.
But I can also say good riddance to the hatred that he spewed.
I just listened to an interview Jim Acosta had with Jack Cocchiarella that gave what, for me, were insights into the type of on- line community that the young man who took responsibility for the shooting of Charlie Kirk was immersed in. It’s here on substack if anyone is interested.
Yes, the interview with Gen~Z influencer Jack Cocchiarella was very enlightening about the extreme right community and that of “ gamers.” Tyler Robinson is from a Mormon, conservative , gun owning family who became very influenced by this radical culture…tragically.
Simple answer: No, we can't get back to facts. Not as long as MAGA world - aided and abetted by trump, Miller, and the rest of the hate-filled right wing media has their agenda to push.
And when some people in the public sphere tried to say some facts - such as Kirk was a victim of a world he helped create? They get fired.
So. Hm. Let’s see. Didn’t Kellyanne Conway, special adviser to djt, introduce the concept of “alternative facts” as if that was somehow a valid and viable concept, and as equally important as “just the facts, ma’am”? That sure turned out well.
And now people claim that “their truth” is “THE TRUTH” instead of, let’s say, a personal opinion.
Meanwhile, enters AI, stage right, and well, it’s gets a little dicey, like we’re in an extended episode of the “twilight zone”.
Humans suck at accuracy of what other people are feeling
And not one word about the democrats who were slaughtered in their home. Not one word because they believe democrats are not human.
Not any word about the hundreds of children who have been slaughtered in their schools.
Though often said, it always bears repeating that if you love your money, your job and/or your power more than you love your families and children, nothing about our tragic times will ever change. It is easy to hate but love takes work.
We can get back. If I were a young, Democratic Senator, I'd make a public display of literally walking across the aisle, and shaking hands with a young Republican and boldly announce, "IT STOPS NOW. AND WE'RE GOING TO DO IT!" We have to do something different and we need actors who don't care about social media backlash and perhaps are even willing to give up their jobs. A fanciful dream or delusion but it's the only logical next step or we head into even more dangerous chaos.
Are there any young Republucans who would shake the hand of a Democrat? The young ones tend to be more radical and hateful than the older Republicans.
And the publicity around the attempt would be phenomenal. No standing there talking to a camera to draw attention to myself (al Ted Cruz and Cory Booker). And I'd keep my hand out until someone took me up on it.
If a young Republican politician were hoping for a long term political future they wouldn't be caught dead shaking a Democrats hand. The Right wing "main stream" media would vilify them as would Nick Fuentes, Lara Loomer and Joe, it would be political suicide.
I would find one or stand in the aisle until one came up to me. Again not sure if it's just a dream or delusion but we have to do something different and this is an opportunity. Sad that a murder of someone has to be considered an opportunity but so be it.
You do realize that the Republicans are changing the rules of the Senate in order to push through a bunch of Donald Trump's nominees.
Yep. Don't care. Doesn't change my mind at all. If I was a Dem in the Senate I'd do it. Not sure it would work but I'd stand there with my hand out until A Republican shook it and promised to work with me. And if no one did well then at least we'd know what our fate was.
I find your words particularly wise today. Yes, we have to continue to commit to facts. You have a way of saying what needs to be said without inciting further rage. You clearly communicate the gravity of our situation, but you do not inflame it. Thank you. It is a very exhausting time, but we are lost and really not helpful if we stay in a rage. My candle of hope has been flickering lately, but I know I have to give it oxygen and not let it totally go out. thank you for helping with that. Got to keep moving forward in this sinister time. Keep shining the light.
Thanks for saying so, Maro. It is a challenge to maintain a sense of hope when things are and feel out of control.
I recall in my yourger days whe the word 'propaganda' was bantered around on the news it was always in reference to rogue regimes like Russia, North Korea and others. Never did we ever think of it existing in our own media or political discourse. But here we are, on steroids.
Yep. So. Hm. Let’s see. Didn’t Kellyanne Conway, special adviser to djt, introduce the concept of “alternative facts” as if that was somehow a valid and viable concept, and as equally important as “just the facts, ma’am”? That sure turned out well.
And now people claim that “their truth” is “THE TRUTH” instead of, let’s say, a personal opinion. Sounds like BS, (or propaganda), to me.
Meanwhile, enters AI, stage right, and well, it gets a little dicey, like we’re in an extended episode of the “twilight zone”.
Sigh…
What I have found the most productive, is to ask gentle, sincere QUESTIONS, from a genuine CURIOSITY. It has a way of refocusing their attention to what they KNOW, instead of the TALKING POINTS they are perhaps repeating.
Valuable thought. Thanks.
I'm glad that worked for you, but thus far, it hasn't worked for me.
^^ This especially
MAGA doesn't worry about facts. Lies, like bad news, travel further, faster and last a long time. Some, never go away. Besides, it takes a calm demeanor to articulate the truth, but lies you can yell at the top of your lungs. Picture J6 with small groups, sitting cross-legged, in circles, discussing facts; instead of busting windows, attacking policemen and erecting a gallows.
My initial reaction to Steven’s excellent post -
Yep. So. Hm. Let’s see. Didn’t Kellyanne Conway, special adviser to djt, introduce the concept of “alternative facts” as if that was somehow a valid and viable concept, and as equally important as “just the facts, ma’am”? That sure turned out well.
And now people claim that “their truth” is “THE TRUTH” instead of, let’s say, a personal opinion. Sounds like BS, (or propaganda), to me.
Meanwhile, enters AI, stage right, and well, it gets a little dicey, like we’re in an extended episode of the “twilight zone”.
Sigh…
I don't think we can get back to reason and truth until we have consensus from the Fourth Estate to factual reporting:
1) Stop sane-washing the Felon's speech.
2) Report FACTS without opinion,
3) Stop "both sides-ism." Again, use factual evidence to report events as they are, no matter who is involved.
4) Return the Fairness Doctrine: if one side runs BS ads, the other side must have equal time to counter.
5) Pass legislation to fund communities to restart their local newspapers, again with true journalistic reporting, with opinions limited to the Opinion pages. Community newspapers used to be where everyone read the same reporting of events, a communal set of facts.
6) PLEASE RETURN CIVICS EDUCATION TO SCHOOLS.
None of these things will happen in the foreseeable future. The Republican Party has abandoned all principles and duties to their constituents to maintain a stranglehold on power. money is in fear mongering, and the main news outlets have bent the knee to the Felon to report only what he allows. Until the GOP has some people who regain their spines and honor their oaths to the Constitution, this regime will continue to fan the flames of violence.
When did the line become so blurry? Following is my reply to Steven’s post…
Yep. So. Hm. Let’s see. Didn’t Kellyanne Conway, special adviser to djt, introduce the concept of “alternative facts” as if that was somehow a valid and viable concept, and as equally important as “just the facts, ma’am”? That sure turned out well.
And now people claim that “their truth” is “THE TRUTH” instead of, let’s say, a personal opinion. Sounds like BS, or propaganda, to me.
Meanwhile, enters AI, stage right, and well, it’s gets a little dicey, like we’re in an extended episode of the “twilight zone”.
Sigh…
Keeping clear focus on facts keeps us sane. Failure to remain in touch with reality is the very definition of insanity.
The election of DJT in November 2024 proved that a substantial minority of American voters had lost their minds. Another substantial minority did not bother to vote. Only a third of eligible voters showed sanity.
Insane people cannot govern themselves. They are not competent. (“Non compos mentis” is the Latin phrase.)
So, you ask the crucial question: can Americans still govern themselves, or are we lost to insanity and lawless tyranny?
Methinks we have officially entered the extended version of the “Twilight Zone”
And we can thank Kellyanne Conway for introducing the concept of “alternative facts, as if that’s some sort of valid concept equal to FACTS and TRUTH, instead of someone’s personal opinion.
Lying is as old as speaking. Yes, alternative facts”
“If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it be all those than that people worry over it. … Give the people contests they win by remembering the words to more popular songs or the names of state capitals or how much corn Iowa grew last year. Cram them full of noncombustible data, chock them so damned full of 'facts' they feel stuffed, but absolutely 'brilliant' with information. Then they'll feel they're thinking, they'll get a sense of motion without moving. And they'll be happy, because facts of that sort don't change.” ~ Ray Bradbury, “Fahrenheit 451”
The best way to return to facts is for those of us who can discern what is factual to not give up and go silent. The cracks in the brainwashing on the right are beginning to form. Just put facts out there as calmly and non judgemental and kindly as possible. Over time, as people realize they are also damaged by this mess we're on, enough will wake up. It's already happening, but be patient with people. Deprogramming yourself from a cult is never speedy.
The alleged shooter, Tyler James Robinson, comes from a Republican family, though Tyler is not registered to any party. His father is a retired sheriff in Washington County, Utah. There are photos of Tyler and his family with guns. Tyler Robinson dressed as Donald Trump for Halloween: a devout supporter, it would seem, who donated to Donald Trump in 2020. Tyler, we know, hated Charlie Kirk because he was not far enough to the right.
Grifting to turn grief into grievance, manipulating the many’s mourning, Donald Trump solicits rage that he can exploit for violence—before there is any proof the left contributed to the shooting. The facts do not matter to Trump. That is irresponsible leadership from Trump. Republican members in Congress mimic their leader in jumping to conclusions whose only foundation is a pack of prior Trump lies. They are all written Evans history tells us they are deluded cultists. Gross irresponsibility of this magnitude is criminal malfeasance.
It is Trump who constantly and vociferously demonizes the left with his rhetoric. He does not seek to quench the Nation’s anger, to break with violence. He seeks to inflame any given moment, stoking the flames well before investigation uncovers any facts at all. It is he and Kirk that traded in vile, demonizing, and inflammatory rhetoric designed to incite violence. They both traded in an inflammatory speech to monetize the anger they created. The cult no longer has the intellectual ability to rationalize the moment.
These two people monetized their hostility like the money changers they are. They gaslighted the rest of us whenever a fire broke out, and they simultaneously fanned those flames while pouring gasoline on the fire.
History dictates that the shooter will be a Republican supporter. They are all angry white men with right leanings. EVERY ONE! If you do not see that, yours is a delusional world. Have you paid no attention at all to the political and racist violence of last decade? If so, you know the party of violence. I gathered a list for you. https://hotbuttons.substack.com/p/bilious-hate-mongering?r=3m1bs
Today to our building group email I asked if others had found any places in our DC neighborhood to get COVID vaccinations with a script or if 65+. (Nope. DC is on the ‘no vax’ list.) Lots of alt suggestions until one person wrote a screed of “absolute facts” about the harm of the vaccinations.
The short answer is “no” because as others have stated, “alternative facts” are what this entire regime and movement keep putting forth. Yes, here others wrote with links to _real_ facts about vaccinations. Still given measles outbreaks and deaths, we’re too far away from reality.
Yes. We must focus on the facts. The more wild the other spreads conspiracy theories, the more the truth is needed. Most people, and I talk with 100 people a week in my work, on day to day interactions just want everything toned down.
But a broader picture, is this about Mr. Kirk, or is this a reaction to the radical approach to politics that he inspired. Yes he talked to people in open debate. But yes, you can find his online videos spewing blatantly racist positions. He said, when he sees an African American in a job, he asks himself did they deserve it or are they an unqualified DEI hire. I can’t imagine walking around with that running through my head.
I saw him as a provocateur, someone who fires up his side. I feel for the loss of his family who lost him.
But I can also say good riddance to the hatred that he spewed.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” ~ George Orwell, in "1984"
I just listened to an interview Jim Acosta had with Jack Cocchiarella that gave what, for me, were insights into the type of on- line community that the young man who took responsibility for the shooting of Charlie Kirk was immersed in. It’s here on substack if anyone is interested.
Yes, the interview with Gen~Z influencer Jack Cocchiarella was very enlightening about the extreme right community and that of “ gamers.” Tyler Robinson is from a Mormon, conservative , gun owning family who became very influenced by this radical culture…tragically.
exactly as you say...thank you for adding the other details for those who might not see it otherwise.