Be clear: Trump will further exploit our military to wage war in our cities against our fellow Americans. That was the message he delivered to senior officers today.
My late father-in-law was a U.S. Marine officer. He valued the Constitution, and took an oath to defend it. He wouldn't be obeying anything from Trump. Let's hope there are hundreds like him.
I think Mr. Selfe was referring to our political leadership, not foreign enemies. We need to protect ourselves against this vile, corrupt administration and not ask our military to do it for us. We don't want to go down that path.
Respectfully, it is the generals job to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic. There are many ways to protect; not obeying illegal orders is one of them.
This may be my third favorite of the many articles over 8 years you have devotedly shared with us, Steven.
I’ve spent the morning in abject horror but sadly not surprise.
I copied many passages as I usually do to help me assess. Sobbing at the same time.
There are a few of your statements that give me Hope:
1: “…But Trump faced stony silence from these serious military professionals, even though he tried to get them to ignore their training”
2:…”In the face of a lawless and dishonorable Commander-in-Chief, these professionals’ reluctant response was one reason for hope.”
3:”Academy at West Point was responsible for erecting a plaque that made clear where American soldiers’s honor and loyalty should reside.
“The United States boldly broke with the ancient military custom of swearing loyalty to a leader. Article VI required that American Officers thereafter swear loyalty to our basic law, the Constitution,””
4/ Academy of West Point continued.
“Our American Code of Military Obedience requires that, should orders and the law ever conflict, our officers must obey the law. Many other nations have adopted our principle of loyalty to the basic law.
This nation must have military leaders of principle and integrity so strong that their oaths to support and defend the Constitution will unfailingly govern their actions. The purpose of the United States Military Academy is to provide such leaders of character.”
I know I’ve said this many times over the years…”We are so very grateful for devotion and love of our Democracy, your honesty and the time you spend trying to in effect save us.
I’d like to know which general(s) or admiral(s) will confront the sot “Secretary of War” or the bloviating Orange Menace and say to them: “Sir. I took my oath to preserve, protect and defend the United States Constitution and I will not order any troops under my command to invade an American city or inflict harm on an American citizen.” Who will be the first?
This is an interesting question. Someone in a senior leadership position is going to have to take a stand when such an order is issued and say, "This is not a lawful order." And be prepared to suffer the immediate consequences while this question works its way to the Supreme Court. The latter clause gives me the willies, but that's the way things are supposed to work. Perhaps this hypothetical senior leader might start the ball rolling among others of his rank. Of course, if SCOTUS says it's OK for soldiers to kill American civilians, then the democracy game is over.
I hadn’t gotten around to reading Trump’s remarks yep, but I read Hegseth’s and I was stunned, but not surprised by his threats and his move to turn the military into a lawless organization that will commit crimes against fellow military personnel, the American people, War Crimes, and Crimes against Humanity. Any officer or NCO of any rank should if retirement eligible should immediately put in retirement papers. Those with integrity who can’t retire should resign.
I am glad that I am already retired. But I will speak out as loudly as I can, wherever I can, and on whatever venue I can.
Damn Hegseth and Trump to the lowest rung of hell. I cannot wait to see them on trial in either the United States or The Hague.
I listened to some of this on AP, maybe I will also go to CSPAN.
So according to Hegseth, one now needs the "warrior ethos" and to bulk up to male standards in order to use a joystick in modern warfare that will mostly be done by drones.
Speaking of physical fitness, has Hegseth looked at the Commander in Chief lately?
Honestly, if a joystick is the new and prominent skill for war, the nation's self-proclaimed beta males' moment to shine may finally be here.
Besides, in addition to Trump's unconstitutional emphasis on using our own cities for military training and to use the military against his imaginary dragon foe or "the enemy from within" which is also what Hitler and McCarthy said to persecute those they wanted to go after, it is concerning that we may become ill equipped as they ignore how war will be fought from now on, mostly with drones.
We have to be ready as even our defenses will need to be calibrated for this, as well.
Due to the war in Ukraine, NATO troops discovered they needed to retrain and redo a lot of their thinking and preparedness.
"“The fundamental problem is that, before Ukraine, a lot of Western defense technology just didn’t consider this… asymmetric threat of drones”
We need to do be ready to protect our national security, not worried how may push-ups Hegseth and our troops can do, or if they are willing to mow down liberal tree huggers from the northwest that Trump seems to imagine are fierce threatening dragons and can breathe fire and fly, how utterly bizarre.
If I may, given the importance of this moment, share a synopsis of a thoughtful essay published recently on Substack by former US Marine Michael Wood, entitled: "It's Not the President's Military", subtitled: "America's military belongs to the Constitution and the American People." As a retired general officer, it resonated with me...
To this point in the Trump Administration, the United States military has largely resisted that corrosive dynamic, but the cracks are beginning to show. It is imperative every officer in the Armed Forces do what they can to protect the integrity of their institutions and the honor of the enlisted men and women they lead. Trump and his handlers have done so much to damage the country, humiliating us on a daily basis before the rest of the world, that his attempts to politicize the military have been insidious. Now, military leaders have been summoned to Washington and the not-so-veiled message was to adopt jaundiced idea that their oath is to the Executive instead of to the U.S. Constitution.
Personally, I don’t buy the current SECDEF’s tough guy talk of readiness, warrior ethos and lethality… for 34 years of service a warrior ethos was always present. Rules of engagement just prevented indiscriminately raining down death and destruction on non-combatants, just because we were at war. You can recognize it's your job to kill people when necessary, and still make it a point of pride to not commit war crimes or celebrate the deaths of civilians. Of course, we’ve all heard the tough guy talk by the wannabe soldiers how “pansy” or “woke” the U.S. military is for respecting human life. But now, one of those voices is in charge of the Pentagon. A drunken, sexist, racist, Christian Nationalist, failed platoon leader, now overseeing the largest bureaucracy in the world.
If the U.S. military is to remain a force with moral authority and cohesion, officers must insist that our institutions — and the people who serve in them — are defended from both external threats and corrosive political influence. That duty is part of the oath we took to protect and preserve the Constitution and the honor of those we lead.
Take as one example, the killing of people in boats off Venezuela? According to The NY Times, “Pentagon officials are still working to determine on what legal authority they executed strikes in international waters.” In other words, the strike came first — and only afterward did Pentagon officials leaf through the law books for a justification. That is terrifying and it is becoming routine. Just today in the NY Times, a Venezuelan women claimed the loss of her husband and four children. If true, whoever authorized the strike is guilty of a war crime.
Despite the insidious move by the administration toward lawlessness, military leaders may have to make it clear they are committed to institutions, norms, and mores, and that they would be held accountable for any illegal or damaging actions carried out at Trump’s behest. Essentially, they know enough to know they don’t want the United States to look like a third world country where those in power weaponize the state against their political enemies.
But here’s the problem: MAGA holds none of those compunctions and we’re speeding toward being governed like a third-world country anyways… they actually want to wield state power to punish their enemies.
Military officers know this truth… if they follow illegal orders during the Trump administration, they will be held responsible. Veterans are just people placed in extreme circumstances trying to do their jobs, stay alive, and build respectable careers. Officers respond to incentives like everyone else, and from the outside it looks as if all the incentives right now point toward violating the law if that’s what they’re ordered to do. Trump isn’t the type to be told “no,” and besides, this administration isn’t going to press legal issues very hard since they fired most of the lawyers and Inspector Generals.
That’s why the message needs to come from Democrats in Congress, other Veterans who have worn the uniform, and from everyday American citizens: the rule of law will return to the Armed Forces soon, so do not submit. You might get a negative Fitness Report or be passed over for promotion if you refuse an unlawful order. But, if you act illegally, you could end up at Fort Leavenworth.
Those in Congress and other positions of authority need to make it known to the military that there will be real consequences for violating the law, it will be a huge gift to the service members who, I’m sure, are alarmed by the direction things are heading. They need cover — something to point to when they say, “I’m sorry, sir, but you’ll have to find someone else for that... I’m not signing up for lawyers or willing to go to jail for this."
To be clear, we're talking about illegal orders, not just stupid or non-sensical ones coming out of Hegseth's front office and the White House. The warning needs to be loud and unambiguous: do not follow unlawful orders, and you will be defended by the rule of law when it returns. We will have crossed into another, more dangerous world if the military is transformed into a Republican Guard — loyal not to the Constitution, but to one man and one party. This president wants generals who will respond “aye aye, sir” when he says “shoot the protesters”. That is why the founders created a government that while the president is commander-in-chief, yes, the military pledges allegiance to the Constitution and operates under laws set by Congress. In other words, a military that belongs to the American people — not to a would-be tyrant.
Thanks for this: "You can recognize it's your job to kill people when necessary, and still make it a point of pride to not commit war crimes or celebrate the deaths of civilians."
Just more of the same from Trump, and a typical performance by one of his immoral, fawning sycophants showing off for his boss like a 12 yr old showing off for someone he “likes” in school. No offense to 12 yr olds, but a grown man should know better.
On November 6th last year, I put a bumper sticker on my truck that just says, “You’ll See.” Still the only thing I can say to the people who did and still do support him. Nothing he does or will do surprises me. He is only capable of being what he is, and nothing will ever change that. Now, what the fuck are WE going to do about it???
This whole show was just plain BS. Here you have little Pete Hegseth telling the finest military in the world the generals are obese and to get in shape like him. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement.” Good God what an order. Trump gets on the podium and started his rant to a very quiet audience of military brass explaining the cities he is going to unleash them on and possibly use full force. I suppose a few of the brass were perplexed with his insane rant. That mouse of a man Hegseth sure likes to flex his pecs. We will see if the military take their oath for granted. The military should pull off a coup and arrest the insane leaders along with Hegseth and the Supreme court and give them the same treatment the immigrants get. No due process and ship them off to an unknown island.
Steven-Your posts are a balm for my assaulted brain, plus even this old English major had to look up “sycophantic” to be sure I was clear of its meaning; perfect choice btw!
The Senate has the power to remove a cabinet member, but the Republicans are "in so far in blood, /That to return would be as tedious / As to go o'er." The line is from Macbeth.
What an appalling, dangerous display of ignorance, ego, and utter disdain for our military. It was bad enough to pull these leaders away from their critical work simply because Hegseth sought to flaunt his position and sociopathic notions of war. Rules of engagement exist for reasons neither Hegseth nor Trump understand or care about. When push comes to shove, let’s hope our military leaders stick together and support the Constitution.
The ramparts were breached when the Supreme Court gave him immunity. No one is left to defend us if the generals won’t.
My late father-in-law was a U.S. Marine officer. He valued the Constitution, and took an oath to defend it. He wouldn't be obeying anything from Trump. Let's hope there are hundreds like him.
Bless him. More like him would end this. Probably the only thing that can.
The generals should arrest the giver of any unlawful order.
Lots of "shoulds" out there, left hanging.
And they shred precedent. And of course the constitution itself.
I don’t think it is the generals job to protect us.
Respectfully, you should think again.
I think Mr. Selfe was referring to our political leadership, not foreign enemies. We need to protect ourselves against this vile, corrupt administration and not ask our military to do it for us. We don't want to go down that path.
Respectfully, it is the generals job to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic. There are many ways to protect; not obeying illegal orders is one of them.
You’re right. I’d forgotten that part of the oath.
You are correct.
This is insane.
How can the GOP who control all of congress let it get this far and do nothing after a meeting like this with such statements?
Will the generals band together and write a letter or threaten to resign?
Certainly something has to happen.
Something did happen. Fascism Totalitarianism. Dictatorship. Govt by theats and implementation of violence.
This may be my third favorite of the many articles over 8 years you have devotedly shared with us, Steven.
I’ve spent the morning in abject horror but sadly not surprise.
I copied many passages as I usually do to help me assess. Sobbing at the same time.
There are a few of your statements that give me Hope:
1: “…But Trump faced stony silence from these serious military professionals, even though he tried to get them to ignore their training”
2:…”In the face of a lawless and dishonorable Commander-in-Chief, these professionals’ reluctant response was one reason for hope.”
3:”Academy at West Point was responsible for erecting a plaque that made clear where American soldiers’s honor and loyalty should reside.
“The United States boldly broke with the ancient military custom of swearing loyalty to a leader. Article VI required that American Officers thereafter swear loyalty to our basic law, the Constitution,””
4/ Academy of West Point continued.
“Our American Code of Military Obedience requires that, should orders and the law ever conflict, our officers must obey the law. Many other nations have adopted our principle of loyalty to the basic law.
This nation must have military leaders of principle and integrity so strong that their oaths to support and defend the Constitution will unfailingly govern their actions. The purpose of the United States Military Academy is to provide such leaders of character.”
I know I’ve said this many times over the years…”We are so very grateful for devotion and love of our Democracy, your honesty and the time you spend trying to in effect save us.
Thank you for allowing us to respond!
https://www.nokings.org/?SQF_SOURCE=indivisible#map
OCT 18 No Kings
Peacefully Protest
Huge Numbers
Help Each Other
Save Our County
I WILL NOT be frightened
I will be there
💙🇺🇸💙
I’d like to know which general(s) or admiral(s) will confront the sot “Secretary of War” or the bloviating Orange Menace and say to them: “Sir. I took my oath to preserve, protect and defend the United States Constitution and I will not order any troops under my command to invade an American city or inflict harm on an American citizen.” Who will be the first?
This is an interesting question. Someone in a senior leadership position is going to have to take a stand when such an order is issued and say, "This is not a lawful order." And be prepared to suffer the immediate consequences while this question works its way to the Supreme Court. The latter clause gives me the willies, but that's the way things are supposed to work. Perhaps this hypothetical senior leader might start the ball rolling among others of his rank. Of course, if SCOTUS says it's OK for soldiers to kill American civilians, then the democracy game is over.
Steven,
I hadn’t gotten around to reading Trump’s remarks yep, but I read Hegseth’s and I was stunned, but not surprised by his threats and his move to turn the military into a lawless organization that will commit crimes against fellow military personnel, the American people, War Crimes, and Crimes against Humanity. Any officer or NCO of any rank should if retirement eligible should immediately put in retirement papers. Those with integrity who can’t retire should resign.
I am glad that I am already retired. But I will speak out as loudly as I can, wherever I can, and on whatever venue I can.
Damn Hegseth and Trump to the lowest rung of hell. I cannot wait to see them on trial in either the United States or The Hague.
Thank you Steven.
All the best and watch your six,
Steve Dundas
District court judges are doing their darnedest too! Thank you for this opinion.
I listened to some of this on AP, maybe I will also go to CSPAN.
So according to Hegseth, one now needs the "warrior ethos" and to bulk up to male standards in order to use a joystick in modern warfare that will mostly be done by drones.
Speaking of physical fitness, has Hegseth looked at the Commander in Chief lately?
Honestly, if a joystick is the new and prominent skill for war, the nation's self-proclaimed beta males' moment to shine may finally be here.
Besides, in addition to Trump's unconstitutional emphasis on using our own cities for military training and to use the military against his imaginary dragon foe or "the enemy from within" which is also what Hitler and McCarthy said to persecute those they wanted to go after, it is concerning that we may become ill equipped as they ignore how war will be fought from now on, mostly with drones.
We have to be ready as even our defenses will need to be calibrated for this, as well.
Due to the war in Ukraine, NATO troops discovered they needed to retrain and redo a lot of their thinking and preparedness.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/21/europe/nato-russia-drone-threat-intl
"“The fundamental problem is that, before Ukraine, a lot of Western defense technology just didn’t consider this… asymmetric threat of drones”
We need to do be ready to protect our national security, not worried how may push-ups Hegseth and our troops can do, or if they are willing to mow down liberal tree huggers from the northwest that Trump seems to imagine are fierce threatening dragons and can breathe fire and fly, how utterly bizarre.
If I may, given the importance of this moment, share a synopsis of a thoughtful essay published recently on Substack by former US Marine Michael Wood, entitled: "It's Not the President's Military", subtitled: "America's military belongs to the Constitution and the American People." As a retired general officer, it resonated with me...
To this point in the Trump Administration, the United States military has largely resisted that corrosive dynamic, but the cracks are beginning to show. It is imperative every officer in the Armed Forces do what they can to protect the integrity of their institutions and the honor of the enlisted men and women they lead. Trump and his handlers have done so much to damage the country, humiliating us on a daily basis before the rest of the world, that his attempts to politicize the military have been insidious. Now, military leaders have been summoned to Washington and the not-so-veiled message was to adopt jaundiced idea that their oath is to the Executive instead of to the U.S. Constitution.
Personally, I don’t buy the current SECDEF’s tough guy talk of readiness, warrior ethos and lethality… for 34 years of service a warrior ethos was always present. Rules of engagement just prevented indiscriminately raining down death and destruction on non-combatants, just because we were at war. You can recognize it's your job to kill people when necessary, and still make it a point of pride to not commit war crimes or celebrate the deaths of civilians. Of course, we’ve all heard the tough guy talk by the wannabe soldiers how “pansy” or “woke” the U.S. military is for respecting human life. But now, one of those voices is in charge of the Pentagon. A drunken, sexist, racist, Christian Nationalist, failed platoon leader, now overseeing the largest bureaucracy in the world.
If the U.S. military is to remain a force with moral authority and cohesion, officers must insist that our institutions — and the people who serve in them — are defended from both external threats and corrosive political influence. That duty is part of the oath we took to protect and preserve the Constitution and the honor of those we lead.
Take as one example, the killing of people in boats off Venezuela? According to The NY Times, “Pentagon officials are still working to determine on what legal authority they executed strikes in international waters.” In other words, the strike came first — and only afterward did Pentagon officials leaf through the law books for a justification. That is terrifying and it is becoming routine. Just today in the NY Times, a Venezuelan women claimed the loss of her husband and four children. If true, whoever authorized the strike is guilty of a war crime.
Despite the insidious move by the administration toward lawlessness, military leaders may have to make it clear they are committed to institutions, norms, and mores, and that they would be held accountable for any illegal or damaging actions carried out at Trump’s behest. Essentially, they know enough to know they don’t want the United States to look like a third world country where those in power weaponize the state against their political enemies.
But here’s the problem: MAGA holds none of those compunctions and we’re speeding toward being governed like a third-world country anyways… they actually want to wield state power to punish their enemies.
Military officers know this truth… if they follow illegal orders during the Trump administration, they will be held responsible. Veterans are just people placed in extreme circumstances trying to do their jobs, stay alive, and build respectable careers. Officers respond to incentives like everyone else, and from the outside it looks as if all the incentives right now point toward violating the law if that’s what they’re ordered to do. Trump isn’t the type to be told “no,” and besides, this administration isn’t going to press legal issues very hard since they fired most of the lawyers and Inspector Generals.
That’s why the message needs to come from Democrats in Congress, other Veterans who have worn the uniform, and from everyday American citizens: the rule of law will return to the Armed Forces soon, so do not submit. You might get a negative Fitness Report or be passed over for promotion if you refuse an unlawful order. But, if you act illegally, you could end up at Fort Leavenworth.
Those in Congress and other positions of authority need to make it known to the military that there will be real consequences for violating the law, it will be a huge gift to the service members who, I’m sure, are alarmed by the direction things are heading. They need cover — something to point to when they say, “I’m sorry, sir, but you’ll have to find someone else for that... I’m not signing up for lawyers or willing to go to jail for this."
To be clear, we're talking about illegal orders, not just stupid or non-sensical ones coming out of Hegseth's front office and the White House. The warning needs to be loud and unambiguous: do not follow unlawful orders, and you will be defended by the rule of law when it returns. We will have crossed into another, more dangerous world if the military is transformed into a Republican Guard — loyal not to the Constitution, but to one man and one party. This president wants generals who will respond “aye aye, sir” when he says “shoot the protesters”. That is why the founders created a government that while the president is commander-in-chief, yes, the military pledges allegiance to the Constitution and operates under laws set by Congress. In other words, a military that belongs to the American people — not to a would-be tyrant.
Thanks for this: "You can recognize it's your job to kill people when necessary, and still make it a point of pride to not commit war crimes or celebrate the deaths of civilians."
I can't like this post enough. Thank you.
Just more of the same from Trump, and a typical performance by one of his immoral, fawning sycophants showing off for his boss like a 12 yr old showing off for someone he “likes” in school. No offense to 12 yr olds, but a grown man should know better.
On November 6th last year, I put a bumper sticker on my truck that just says, “You’ll See.” Still the only thing I can say to the people who did and still do support him. Nothing he does or will do surprises me. He is only capable of being what he is, and nothing will ever change that. Now, what the fuck are WE going to do about it???
This whole show was just plain BS. Here you have little Pete Hegseth telling the finest military in the world the generals are obese and to get in shape like him. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement.” Good God what an order. Trump gets on the podium and started his rant to a very quiet audience of military brass explaining the cities he is going to unleash them on and possibly use full force. I suppose a few of the brass were perplexed with his insane rant. That mouse of a man Hegseth sure likes to flex his pecs. We will see if the military take their oath for granted. The military should pull off a coup and arrest the insane leaders along with Hegseth and the Supreme court and give them the same treatment the immigrants get. No due process and ship them off to an unknown island.
This is worst than I thought it would be. Trump has told Americans if you protest, we are coming for you. We will not hold back. This is war!
Steven-Your posts are a balm for my assaulted brain, plus even this old English major had to look up “sycophantic” to be sure I was clear of its meaning; perfect choice btw!
Hoping there are a LOT of resignations forthcoming from this new Nazi Vermacht.
Noo! We don't want our principled military leaders to resign. We want them to stay true to their oaths and steadfastly refuse to obey unlawful orders.
exactly!
How can the Secretary be removed? This is way way way beyond the pale. Enemy from within. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, take the wheel.
The Senate has the power to remove a cabinet member, but the Republicans are "in so far in blood, /That to return would be as tedious / As to go o'er." The line is from Macbeth.
Very on point!
Are they bringing back slavery? Concentration camps? Trial by accusation? Wheres a photo of a shredded constitution.
What an appalling, dangerous display of ignorance, ego, and utter disdain for our military. It was bad enough to pull these leaders away from their critical work simply because Hegseth sought to flaunt his position and sociopathic notions of war. Rules of engagement exist for reasons neither Hegseth nor Trump understand or care about. When push comes to shove, let’s hope our military leaders stick together and support the Constitution.