This is abhorrent, reprehensible, and has no place in our society. I'm waiting to see whether any Republican legislators will see this as a gun issue and finally take action. Sadly, I think it will be a long wait.
One thing to remember: This didn't happen in L.A. or Chicago or D.C. It happened in Utah. That will complicate comments by MAGAs.
Sadly, I worry that some in Trump's camp may be thrilled this happened, just like they were about the assassination attempt against Trump, because it boosted his political chances. Thus, sadly, I doubt it will be used to promote gun safety or gun violence awareness, but used to justify more actions moving towards a police state. Violence, especially violence against conservatives, is what they are looking for to justify what they intend to do and this plays right into the narrative they want to create of an "enemy within," meaning political foes. It helps further the Carl Schmitt narrative and playbook they seem to be using. Thus, I don't think it will be used to cause the GOP to take action on guns.
They will take whatever political advantage they see. I don’t think it means they are thrilled to have their leaders targeted or assassinated. Not any more than Scalise was thrilled to be shot - but his voting record on gun legislation didn’t change.
I suspect they share what used to be a rather extreme perspective on the 2nd Amendment. As stated by Charlie Kirk in 2023 after the Christian Covenant School shooting — "Yes, people die from gun violence. It’s tragic. But that's the price of freedom. Unfortunately, it's worth it to keep the Second Amendment intact."
“Intact”, I read that as meaning without restriction.
What are the odds that Charlie Kirk‘s death will finally lead to common sense gun control ??? … In which all guns are registered, all gone owners are required to take regular training classes, and all owners must have insurance… Pretty much like what you have to do when you own a car
"Yes, people die from gun violence. It’s tragic. But that's the price of freedom. Unfortunately, it's worth it to keep the Second Amendment intact." — Charlie Kirk, 2023 after the Christian Covenant School shooting.
The “America” gun problem belongs to a minority of Americans, about 32% with extreme views like that & those who pander to them.
66% of gun owners have more than one firearm (about 29% have 5) which accounts for the huge number of firearms floating around.
As much as I’d love to see that, it would royally tick me off that the killing of Charlie Kirk mattered more to them than the hundreds, thousands ?? Of children who have been shot and killed. Im sure we’ll hear about thoughts and prayers from the likes of Ted Cruz - that was all he had after Uvalde.
"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights.” -Charlie Kirk, 2023
No One in the maga world spoke up when an actual elected leader, Mellissa Hortman and her husband and dog were slaughtered by a maga gunman. Trump did not say a word and no one got any condolences.
So remember that when they fearfully talk about how terrible it is that Kirk was shot. Maga only care about other Maga getting shot I guess.
Unlike the Maga, you will find that the Democrats are sad that somebody was killed this way, especially a young man, even if we completely disagreed with his views, He did not act on his views. He just babbled a lot on social media.
Was thinking the same. Did Trump fly the flag half mast for them? It’s a tragedy to lose a young man, father, husband and sadly it happens every day in this country bc of the easy access to guns
No one deserves being shot and killed. I'm certain Trump will exploit it to the hilt and triple down on National Guard and military staye taking over. Thing is, Utah is a very red state. There will still be no movement on gun control.
Oh I know. I flipped over to Facebook, to gauge the temp. It is almost like reading X. What a horror story and of course all types of blame on democrats and calling for the purge of democrats. My stars! Have they totally lost their minds? They didn’t get this worked up over the assassinations of children in their school or the democratic lawmaker assassinated. Political violence should not happen, but here we are and their major myopic view is a huge impediment !
I fear it will only get worse. It will be used as a pretext for more violence and political persecution. But it will not help us end the gun violence epidemic as nothing, not even something as graphic and traumatic, will convince so many in this country that we have a problem with guns. Charlie Kirk will become a far right Christian nationalist martyr whose symbol is more powerful in death than in life.
We are in a very dark place. The writing is flashing on the wall in bright LEDs. But we are too benumbed by ignorance and superstition to read it.
A shooting occurred at a school in Colorado at the very same time. Three students are in critical condition. How is it that we, as a society, tolerate any of this?
I am not glad that anyone is killed. Nevertheless, I do find myself hoping that the shooter is not a person of color or female or an immigrant or... I hope it is a disenchanted white cis male follower of Kirk. Not that that excuses anyone but maybe it slows down the retribution from the right against the innocent.
Stephen, you have stated my thoughts on this matter perfectly . There must never be an excuse for violence. We are sliding deeper and deeper into total dysfunction and hostility as a nation. Where and when will it stop? Big trouble ahead.
~"He who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword," Jesus, Matthew 26:52.
~ I then copied a recent statement by Kirk: "I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational." ~ Charlie Kirk
I don’t think he’s the only one who feels that way. After Steve Scalise what’s seriously wounded at the Congressional Baseball game nothing changed; not even how he voted on gun legislation.
Every word you wrote Steven is absolutely true. It will be the excuse the government is waiting for to bring more lawlessness down upon our country coupled with the 911 anniversary. The terror I feel in my body cannot be denied.
I stand against practically everything Kirk stood for, but am sickened by this vile, horrific event.
More frightening is how it will play in the minds of other unhinged individuals who are already predisposed to political violence. What I fear is that many right wing agitators will try to use it to stir up more extreme passions.
I am not the optimist I used to be, but it actually occurred to me that Kirk's death could ...just maybe... make some gun lovers who are obsessed with the Second Amendment rethink their zeal for firearms. But more more realistically, it will probably give Magats justification for a further police crackdown, even though this murder did not happen in a blue state
I am so proud of our democratic leaders for being among the first to send their condolences. This was a horrific act by any measure. We have to hang on more tightly than ever to our humanity in this moment, no matter what others say. You didn’t have to agree with his beliefs to be in concert with the denunciation of political violence.
This is abhorrent, reprehensible, and has no place in our society. I'm waiting to see whether any Republican legislators will see this as a gun issue and finally take action. Sadly, I think it will be a long wait.
One thing to remember: This didn't happen in L.A. or Chicago or D.C. It happened in Utah. That will complicate comments by MAGAs.
Good point re: Utah.
Sadly, I worry that some in Trump's camp may be thrilled this happened, just like they were about the assassination attempt against Trump, because it boosted his political chances. Thus, sadly, I doubt it will be used to promote gun safety or gun violence awareness, but used to justify more actions moving towards a police state. Violence, especially violence against conservatives, is what they are looking for to justify what they intend to do and this plays right into the narrative they want to create of an "enemy within," meaning political foes. It helps further the Carl Schmitt narrative and playbook they seem to be using. Thus, I don't think it will be used to cause the GOP to take action on guns.
They will take whatever political advantage they see. I don’t think it means they are thrilled to have their leaders targeted or assassinated. Not any more than Scalise was thrilled to be shot - but his voting record on gun legislation didn’t change.
I suspect they share what used to be a rather extreme perspective on the 2nd Amendment. As stated by Charlie Kirk in 2023 after the Christian Covenant School shooting — "Yes, people die from gun violence. It’s tragic. But that's the price of freedom. Unfortunately, it's worth it to keep the Second Amendment intact."
“Intact”, I read that as meaning without restriction.
What are the odds that Charlie Kirk‘s death will finally lead to common sense gun control ??? … In which all guns are registered, all gone owners are required to take regular training classes, and all owners must have insurance… Pretty much like what you have to do when you own a car
I'd go with zero.
And that’s an even bigger tragedy IMHO than Charlie Kirk’s death. Is there nothing that will snap America out of this self-induced nightmare?
"Yes, people die from gun violence. It’s tragic. But that's the price of freedom. Unfortunately, it's worth it to keep the Second Amendment intact." — Charlie Kirk, 2023 after the Christian Covenant School shooting.
The “America” gun problem belongs to a minority of Americans, about 32% with extreme views like that & those who pander to them.
66% of gun owners have more than one firearm (about 29% have 5) which accounts for the huge number of firearms floating around.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/
What blue city will trump invade now to avenge kirk?
As much as I’d love to see that, it would royally tick me off that the killing of Charlie Kirk mattered more to them than the hundreds, thousands ?? Of children who have been shot and killed. Im sure we’ll hear about thoughts and prayers from the likes of Ted Cruz - that was all he had after Uvalde.
I've said all along that gun control would only happen if it hit one of their own.
It did not happen after that kid tried to shoot Trump and you can't get more "one of their own" than that, so why would it now?
It still won't. Not unless a member of Congress/their kids die that way. I don't wish that on anyone.
He said it himself:
"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights.” -Charlie Kirk, 2023
So presumably he'd be OK with someone shooting him to death.
Yes, I mean it's a small price to pay to protect God-given rights.
Indeed he did.
No One in the maga world spoke up when an actual elected leader, Mellissa Hortman and her husband and dog were slaughtered by a maga gunman. Trump did not say a word and no one got any condolences.
So remember that when they fearfully talk about how terrible it is that Kirk was shot. Maga only care about other Maga getting shot I guess.
Unlike the Maga, you will find that the Democrats are sad that somebody was killed this way, especially a young man, even if we completely disagreed with his views, He did not act on his views. He just babbled a lot on social media.
Was thinking the same. Did Trump fly the flag half mast for them? It’s a tragedy to lose a young man, father, husband and sadly it happens every day in this country bc of the easy access to guns
No one deserves being shot and killed. I'm certain Trump will exploit it to the hilt and triple down on National Guard and military staye taking over. Thing is, Utah is a very red state. There will still be no movement on gun control.
Agreed. The problem is that the death will make magats even worse, and thus the gun problem too. I wish it wouldn't. I'm realistic here.
Oh I know. I flipped over to Facebook, to gauge the temp. It is almost like reading X. What a horror story and of course all types of blame on democrats and calling for the purge of democrats. My stars! Have they totally lost their minds? They didn’t get this worked up over the assassinations of children in their school or the democratic lawmaker assassinated. Political violence should not happen, but here we are and their major myopic view is a huge impediment !
I fear it will only get worse. It will be used as a pretext for more violence and political persecution. But it will not help us end the gun violence epidemic as nothing, not even something as graphic and traumatic, will convince so many in this country that we have a problem with guns. Charlie Kirk will become a far right Christian nationalist martyr whose symbol is more powerful in death than in life.
Saint Charlie??
It is very likely that someone in MAGA world is looking into getting just such a tattoo as we speak
2 students at a school in Colorado were shot this afternoon as well. I'm more upset by the violence against them.
https://bsky.app/profile/nytimes.com/post/3lyj5p65ajv2p
We are in a very dark place. The writing is flashing on the wall in bright LEDs. But we are too benumbed by ignorance and superstition to read it.
A shooting occurred at a school in Colorado at the very same time. Three students are in critical condition. How is it that we, as a society, tolerate any of this?
I am not glad that anyone is killed. Nevertheless, I do find myself hoping that the shooter is not a person of color or female or an immigrant or... I hope it is a disenchanted white cis male follower of Kirk. Not that that excuses anyone but maybe it slows down the retribution from the right against the innocent.
Stephen, you have stated my thoughts on this matter perfectly . There must never be an excuse for violence. We are sliding deeper and deeper into total dysfunction and hostility as a nation. Where and when will it stop? Big trouble ahead.
As I entitled my substack post today:
~"He who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword," Jesus, Matthew 26:52.
~ I then copied a recent statement by Kirk: "I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational." ~ Charlie Kirk
I don’t think he’s the only one who feels that way. After Steve Scalise what’s seriously wounded at the Congressional Baseball game nothing changed; not even how he voted on gun legislation.
Past tense. He FELT that way.
Every word you wrote Steven is absolutely true. It will be the excuse the government is waiting for to bring more lawlessness down upon our country coupled with the 911 anniversary. The terror I feel in my body cannot be denied.
I stand against practically everything Kirk stood for, but am sickened by this vile, horrific event.
More frightening is how it will play in the minds of other unhinged individuals who are already predisposed to political violence. What I fear is that many right wing agitators will try to use it to stir up more extreme passions.
I am not the optimist I used to be, but it actually occurred to me that Kirk's death could ...just maybe... make some gun lovers who are obsessed with the Second Amendment rethink their zeal for firearms. But more more realistically, it will probably give Magats justification for a further police crackdown, even though this murder did not happen in a blue state
I am so proud of our democratic leaders for being among the first to send their condolences. This was a horrific act by any measure. We have to hang on more tightly than ever to our humanity in this moment, no matter what others say. You didn’t have to agree with his beliefs to be in concert with the denunciation of political violence.
Thank you, Mr. Beschloss.