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Nibbles McDaniel's avatar

The Trump period (ie his period of influence including, but not only, while he was President) has been one of the most discouraging periods of my life insofar as confidence in government is concerned. And I'm old enough to remember some doozies event: Watergate, Kent State, Vietnam, the Raygun Revolution, WMD, and so on. At least we had some veneer of accountability, even if it didn't satisfy everyone. Trump, though, glorified the vulgar in-your-face defiance of anything genteel, acceptable. He opened the gates of Hell and made being a grotesque, lying, vulgar grifting slob a feature, somehow (gold toilets anyone?), and his example permitted all the bigots, cheats, grifters, hustlers to proudly and loudly out themselves. His acolytes in Congress, smelling the opportunity, crassly exploit the weak minds and soft spots in American culture for their own gain in a sickening "virtuous circle" / perfect storm / feedback loop of suspicion and performative anger which is them amplified and monetized by licensed commercial enterprises (Fox et al), who fund their campaigns, while vomiting their bile into mess halls at our overseas military bases. Talk about corrosive!

I don't know how we get out of this death spiral. I don't know if we get out of it.

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Steven Beschloss's avatar

I think you set up the complicated and poisonous dynamic quite well. How do we extract ourselves from it is the ongoing question that demands a solution.

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Nibbles McDaniel's avatar

Obviously it's a complicated problem to address, but since it really is all driven by money, to start I would: 1) reverse the Citizens United ruling; 2) limit campaign financing/political spending to public and accountable sources; and 3) require 100% transparency compliance for ALL political spending/barter/trade/exchange of value. If we could wave a magic wand and make these so, we would turn the light on in so doing the rats would scamper. Backers/special interests would be visible. Those that remained would have to justify their positions (or not). It makes no sense that a government by and for the people should tolerate such opacity as we have now. And of course this would affect all participants, all alliances. It would be good IMO.

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ric leczel's avatar

the DNC and the RNC would never agree to that. but it's worth doing it

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ric leczel's avatar

I believe John Durham is attempting to answer that question. The information released in the legal documents and subsequently ignored by you and many others but not all draw a direct line to the source of the poisonous well you mention. You can read about the actual court filings here. Note: these are not anonymous leaks, but actual court filings by an US Attorney.

Steven, I believe you are not telling your readers the entire story. I would love to engage with you on what these documents and filings mean. I think you are a smart and thoughtful man, and I met your brother a few times during my tenure at The Nixon Library. It may mean that Trump and Clinton were both crooked.

If that is the case, this would be twice as bad for 160 million voters. I know you come from a background of thoughtful inquisition and serious reflection.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/14/politics/durham-sussmann-filing/index.html

https://clarion.causeaction.com/2022/02/12/new-court-filing-durham-case-is-heating-up/

Care to comment? I would love to feature you in my Substack.

thanks you for not banning me again

Ric

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ric leczel's avatar

Holy cow! I love your vocabulary.

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Nibbles McDaniel's avatar

Thanks Ric

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ric leczel's avatar

I believe we will pull out of it when the conspirators in the clinton campaign are convicted of spying on a sitting president the truth will finally be told -

did you see the report on the Durham investigation?

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Nibbles McDaniel's avatar

Nope. And I am not likely to go down that rabbit hole. They all come from and lead to the same place, basically. Nothing changes while we hunt witches except we, the taxpayers, are weakened by expending energy hating on each other. Meanwhile the grift carries on.

We need to address the roots of the issues (whatever they are). Whatever the misdeeds, be they Trump's, Clinton's, Bush's, or the next opportunist, we need to make the money, specifically the money, completely transparent so as to remove the invisibility cloaks. When we know what bogeyman we're really dealing with, maybe our efforts to effect change can have some impact. Until then we're just shadow boxing, flying blind, chasing phantoms, etc, and set at each others' throats, making others rich while we do it.

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ric leczel's avatar

and I thought I was dystopian! you seem pretty thoughtful, I imagine we have more in common that not, as most people do. I don't know if you saw my posts below, but I write here on Substack. I am looking for people of opposing viewpoints to interview on my post, in a new section on Americans and what we actually really think

I'd be honored if you would consider it

Ric

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Richard Ellis's avatar

I have commented on this before, but facts are facts and the truth. If something does not happen to Trump and his Trumplicans, there will be a revolution, but I am hoping it will not be violent, but the great majority of Americans finally raising their heads out of trying to survive to say this is enough, that we will not be managed by the top 2% of our country.

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ric leczel's avatar

can you be so sure Clinton and her cronies will be held accountable for their crimes?

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Richard Ellis's avatar

If Clinton violated the law, she and her cohorts must be charged. What makes anyone think they are above the law? If its proven in a court of law, she be sentenced as anyone else. You and the rest of the Trumplikins point at Clinton as if Trump will get away with this because Clinton wasn't charged. The last time I checked, we are still a country of laws, not of men or women.

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ric leczel's avatar

Fair enough. So if I am a "Trumpian" (whatever that is) are you a "Clintonian"? I am fascinated by this vitriol for other Americans that just voted for somebody else. I made a comment below to Defendario, and I will repost it here.

Just off the top -

I voted for Trump twice. I voted for Clinton twice. I did not vote for Bush, or McCain or Romney. I voted for Reagan as an 18 year old. I voted Libertarian for many elections.

So again - Trumpian? Friends of mine on the right were pissed at me for voting for Obama twice - I fell for the whole Hope and Change thing -

I don't think you are wrong, but you obviously think that I am not only wrong but evil. As a writer, that is a compelling force. Please help me explore it.

Your complete refusal to even acknowledge that there might be more to the story that previously known to the public is admirable. Especially in the light of new legal documents. I don't care if Trump wins, dies, goes to jail, goes to heaven or goes to hell. I don't c are. What I do care about is so many millions like you that want to divide our country based on who a person votes for. I voted for Obama twice. I voted for Trump twice. I voted for Clinton twice. I did not vote for Bush, or McCain or Romney. I voted for Reagan as an 18 year old. I voted Libertarian for many elections.

So I say all to to simply ask you a question - what are you afraid of?

Voters? If 80% of the country are saying we are on the wrong track, that sounds like a lot of people other that the ones you hate and blame.

People like Bill Maher, Matt Taibbi, Andrew Sullivan are sounding an alarm. And they are not Team-Trump. How do you explain them to yourself?

I have a proposition for you. I write here on Substack, and am working on a new section about the state of our state of mind - I want to interview and enter into a discussion with people who may disagree with me at first blush, but after we talk, I bet we have more in common than not.

I put out a call to all who may assume every citizen that voted for Trump is an evil white supremacist. If you spend just 10 minutes on my post , one will find not Q-Anon, no Big Lie, no crazy bat-shit stuff. Just a guy in the world finding his way when it seems like all is falling down around him.

We are all Americans in the end. If we don't get our shit together soon, we may not be Americans for much longer.

I am totally serious - I would love to engage with people who disagree with me.

Is anyone out there?

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Runfastandwin's avatar

F*** you that’s how sure I am you odiferous odious onion.

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ric leczel's avatar

now that is stinging rhetoric! ouch. now that as homonyms are dispensed with, on the the actual facts?

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Grant J Fricks's avatar

Steven, ask yourself as a historian, did anything happen to the oligarchs involved in the 1933 Banker's coup?

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ric leczel's avatar

Steven, I respect the fact that you are so consumed with Trump you let most other important news items slip past your notice. In service to your readers, however, I thought I might bring to your attention the latest on the John Durham investigation. You know, the whole Russia-thing you have conveniently swept under the rug. Take a look - lest you think I am one of the names you call people that have different thoughts than the correct-thinkers, this dispatch is from Yahoo of all places!

Without a doubt, Hillary Clinton and her campaign not only spied on her rival, but a sitting United States President.

Sounds like big news to me, but you keep covering the Bad Orange. Good Luck in 2022 and beyond.

thanks

Ric

https://news.yahoo.com/durham-tech-exec-working-clinton-145141701.html

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Richard Ellis's avatar

What if they did. You and your minions continue to ignore the FACTS that Trump is and was a liar and a grifter and someone we all should be investigating. Maybe with your wealth, because I bet you are in the top 20%, that you care less about what it is doing to the rest of us. It appalls me that intelligent people cannot see through the ruse of Trump and his followers. The truth will always be the truth, and the longer you lie, the harder it is to maintain it.

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ric leczel's avatar

I did not say Trump is not guilty - I don't know that yet. I love the assumptions you make about a person that just asked a question. If Trump is guilty of any crimes, he should be held accountable. By the same token, can you say that if Clinton committed any crimes, you want to see here and her accomplices held accountable?

Why would call someone you don't know a liar? Or say that I don't care about "the rest of us."

tiabbi just had a good post about assumptions like yours

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-great-international-convoy-fiasco

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Richard Ellis's avatar

I had no right to assume you are a Trumplican. I think we are more alike than not. Sorry

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Defendario's avatar

Yo, ric here *is* a tRUmpanzee. By his own words, suss it out -- self-evident

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ric leczel's avatar

so a guy who voted for trump and obama and clinton 2 times each is a trumpian? your logic falls short of reason, my friend. sorry to disappoint you

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Defendario's avatar

Yes. Even after the 4 year 3-ring circus called the Cult45 administration u *still* voted for the mango Mussolini. Not disappointed but yr beneath my contempt. Hate to repeat myself but again: Good Day

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Defendario's avatar

The Russian Interference was no hoax and prosecutors can charge those who first ferreted it out at the DNS servers but data is still data. Why was djt's server *only* talking to Alfa Bank in St Petersburg? Why did Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, former guy's AG of choice, *recuse himself* from investigation of a hoax??

Unless those fundamental questions get answers, I'll go with Bob Mueller and his non-exculpatory report

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ric leczel's avatar

I cannot argue with you if you cannot understand simple legal documents. Here is the text

Durham’s filing described a startling arrangement involving the tech executive, Sussmann, and others to assemble details about the dubious Trump-Russia ties. “In connection with these efforts, Tech Executive-1 exploited his access to non-public and/or proprietary Internet data,” the filing reads, according to Fox News. “Tech Executive-1 also enlisted the assistance of researchers at a U.S.-based university who were receiving and analyzing large amounts of Internet data in connection with a pending federal government cybersecurity research contract.”

“Tech Executive-1 tasked these researchers to mine Internet data to establish ‘an inference’ and ‘narrative’ tying then-candidate Trump to Russia,” Durham reportedly added. “In doing so, Tech Executive-1 indicated that he was seeking to please certain ‘VIPs,’ referring to individuals at Law Firm-1 and the Clinton campaign.”

This is a conspiracy to spy on the sitting president of the US. Thats as bad as it gets.

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Defendario's avatar

I understand plenty, sport. Not arguing anything except that Russian interference in 2016 was real. Go on in your delusion that djt is above the law

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ric leczel's avatar

I love you bro. Your complete refusal to even acknowledge that there might be more to the story that previously known to the public is admirable. Especially in the light of new legal documents. I don't care if Trump wins, dies, goes to jail, goes to heaven or goes to hell. I don't c are. What I do care about is so many millions like you that want to divide our country based on who a person votes for. I voted for Obama twice. I voted for Trump twice. I voted for Clinton twice. I did not vote for Bush, or McCain or Romney. I voted for Reagan as an 18 year old. I voted Libertarian for many elections.

So I say all to to simply ask you a question - what are you afraid of?

Voters? If 80% of the country are saying we are on the wrong track, that sounds like a lot of people other that the ones you hate and blame.

People like Bill Maher, Matt Taibbi, Andrew Sullivan are sounding an alarm. And they are not Team-Trump. How do you explain them to yourself?

I have a proposition for you. I write here on Substack, and am working on a new section about the state of our state of mind - I want to interview and enter into a discussion with people who may disagree with me at first blush, but after we talk, I bet we have more in common than not.

I put out a call to all who may assume every citizen that voted for Trump is an evil white supremacist. If you spend just 10 minutes on my post , one will find not Q-Anon, no Big Lie, no crazy bat-shit stuff. Just a guy in the world finding his way when it seems like all is falling down around him.

We are all Americans in the end. If we don't get our shit together soon, we may not be Americans for much longer.

I am totally serious - I would love to engage with people who disagree with me.

Is anyone out there?

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Defendario's avatar

U don't actually expect me to read that gibberish. Adios, ric 👋

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ric leczel's avatar

Hence the problem with half the country. Do you always judge books by their cover? Anytime you want to have an actual conversation I stand ready. I don't believe your opinions are gibberish, btw.

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