I have a couple of questions regarding the First Amendment and how it applies or doesn't to fox. I seem to remember in a lawsuit filed against them, they used the defense that they weren't journalists and that fox "new" was just entertainment. Another thing I seem to remember about the First Amendment is that liable and slander weren't protected and neither was the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded room where there is no fire. Considering the danger of the crap they've been spewing about the election and COVID, I consider that at least as dangerous as yelling fire. Wouldn't one or all of these things exempt fox from the protections the court gives to reputable news organizations? Would reinstating the Fairness Doctrine that Reagan threw out, also get rid of them? I get that their base and the politicians who need to feed them their daily dose of red meat would be pissed, and it wouldn't necessarily get rid of the network, but, we could all stop pretending that they are anything but a radical propaganda outlet, who can and should be sued into oblivion.
an attorney.) There seems to be an abundance of people using “free speech” as justification for reckless, subversive speech lately as if they can say anything and still be protected by the 1st amendment. But that’s not the way it works. Your example of yelling “fire” in a crowded theater is classic. Free speech isn’t absolute. One reason it isn’t is because people may be hurt by it. Yelling “fire” in a crowded theater or room isn’t protected because it will very likely result in a panic in which people get hurt.
I agree that FoxNews and it’s clones, hate radio and internet platforms that allow or even promote subversive lies and hate to flourish are deliberately preventing factual information from being heard and keep a substantial number of people in a state of near-hysteria about our government 24/7. That kind of speech isn’t protected by the 1st amendment.
Something has to be done and it needs to be done NOW because the longer it continues, the more difficult it will be to get back to normal. Why can’t the fcc exert some control over the content of FoxNews? I’ve occasionally brought this topic up on twitter and the response I always get is that fcc rules don’t apply to cable channels. So that’s that.
My next thought is, ok, then we need to pass laws that do address cable channels pushing irresponsible, subversive content. But as I’m sure you know, passing new laws for this purpose right now would be nearly impossible. So I now have another idea. I honestly don’t know if it’s possible but I think it’s worth having the Attorney General’s office consider it.
The U.S. criminal code has a section labeled “Subversive Activities.” Within that section are statutes regarding “Treason, Rebellion or Insurrection, Sedition, Conspiracy to Commit Sedition, Advocating for Rebellion or Overthrow of the Government.” These statutes are written referring to PEOPLE
who engage in these activities.
I’m not, nor have I ever been a government attorney, so this is outside my area of expertise, but I don’t know why the people engaging in subversive speech like Tucker Carlson & Sean Hannity, etc. can’t be charged with crimes under these statutes. If they can they should have been charged & indicted long ago. Some people maintain that FoxNews is entertainment. Ok, if I get a gun and hold it to your head is that entertainment too? If I do it on tv does that make it entertainment?
So let’s say for the sake of argument individuals on FoxNews can’t be charged with a crime for doing what they do. If we can’t charge them with crimes individually, why not charge the corporation(s) they work for? The answer would probably be that these criminal statutes apply only to people. But, here’s the thing, if corporations are “people” insofar as they can donate to political campaigns as the Supreme Court has ruled, why can’t corporations be deemed “people” for the purpose of charging them with crimes against the State?
My usual feeling about these things is that if I’ve thought of this, others have surely thought of it as well, so it’s probably not something that will work. I don’t know about you, but I’m beyond sick and tired of whacko extremist tv persons doing everything they can to destroy our democracy without consequence. It’s highly irresponsible, subversive & destructive. That kind of speech is not protected by the Constitution but no one seems to be interested in stopping it. I think FoxNews, hate radio & certain internet platforms are the main reason we’re where we are today and I want it to stop.
Interesting thought about the DOJ. I totally agree that it's beyond time to do something about this. They are a clear and present danger to our country, on several levels. I too, need to see people doing this face consequences. People like this have been getting away with this for far too long.
Only financial pressure will bring down this behemoth. It would behoove someone to go through their broadcasts for the past 2-3 years with a finetooth comb and tease out all of the actionable statements, then work hard on getting the offended parties to sue. I've often noticed in medicine (my field) that 99% of the "this could generate a lawsuit" incidents do not, in fact, generate a lawsuit. It is a huge untapped potential for transfer of wealth from one group to another. In this case, enough suits from offended entities (organizations, firms, religious groups, whatever) might have a real effect. Needs a coordinator to initiate such a drive.
I agree that confronting the Danger of Fox news promoting Dangerous Democracy ending Fascist lies is a step we need to take starting now. I was so tired after the Trump years and the insurrection gave us a bit of a reprieve since America and the world was shook awake with that horrific act of Trump spun violence. Fox Lies must be called out continuously now.... All Americans need to begin again in calling out “Lies and Liars” not sugar coating them as “falsehoods” and “misstatements”.... Collectively we waited too long the last 4 years and the Trump Fascism “mold” grew from the belief of those LIES. I own that I am ANTI FASCIST... I am ANTIFA 😠 Maybe if we Americans agree to identify as being anti fascist we can convert and subvert the Lies and Liars. I noticed that those Americans that expressed fear of Antifa to me this last year did not even know what it was. I first replied to them that “ I am Antifa” then my next words were: “ I am Anti-Fascist”. A bit more about Trump, the current GOP, & Authoritarianism then They too said that they are Antifa. Trump and Fox used the words “Antifa” and “Democrat” as a fear inducing tool and it worked on people who couldn’t figure out for themselves what those words mean. When we say the word “Democracy” the Insurrectionists think the word means “Democrats” and want to end us.
I have a couple of questions regarding the First Amendment and how it applies or doesn't to fox. I seem to remember in a lawsuit filed against them, they used the defense that they weren't journalists and that fox "new" was just entertainment. Another thing I seem to remember about the First Amendment is that liable and slander weren't protected and neither was the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded room where there is no fire. Considering the danger of the crap they've been spewing about the election and COVID, I consider that at least as dangerous as yelling fire. Wouldn't one or all of these things exempt fox from the protections the court gives to reputable news organizations? Would reinstating the Fairness Doctrine that Reagan threw out, also get rid of them? I get that their base and the politicians who need to feed them their daily dose of red meat would be pissed, and it wouldn't necessarily get rid of the network, but, we could all stop pretending that they are anything but a radical propaganda outlet, who can and should be sued into oblivion.
You’re right Karen. (For the record I’m
an attorney.) There seems to be an abundance of people using “free speech” as justification for reckless, subversive speech lately as if they can say anything and still be protected by the 1st amendment. But that’s not the way it works. Your example of yelling “fire” in a crowded theater is classic. Free speech isn’t absolute. One reason it isn’t is because people may be hurt by it. Yelling “fire” in a crowded theater or room isn’t protected because it will very likely result in a panic in which people get hurt.
I agree that FoxNews and it’s clones, hate radio and internet platforms that allow or even promote subversive lies and hate to flourish are deliberately preventing factual information from being heard and keep a substantial number of people in a state of near-hysteria about our government 24/7. That kind of speech isn’t protected by the 1st amendment.
Something has to be done and it needs to be done NOW because the longer it continues, the more difficult it will be to get back to normal. Why can’t the fcc exert some control over the content of FoxNews? I’ve occasionally brought this topic up on twitter and the response I always get is that fcc rules don’t apply to cable channels. So that’s that.
My next thought is, ok, then we need to pass laws that do address cable channels pushing irresponsible, subversive content. But as I’m sure you know, passing new laws for this purpose right now would be nearly impossible. So I now have another idea. I honestly don’t know if it’s possible but I think it’s worth having the Attorney General’s office consider it.
The U.S. criminal code has a section labeled “Subversive Activities.” Within that section are statutes regarding “Treason, Rebellion or Insurrection, Sedition, Conspiracy to Commit Sedition, Advocating for Rebellion or Overthrow of the Government.” These statutes are written referring to PEOPLE
who engage in these activities.
I’m not, nor have I ever been a government attorney, so this is outside my area of expertise, but I don’t know why the people engaging in subversive speech like Tucker Carlson & Sean Hannity, etc. can’t be charged with crimes under these statutes. If they can they should have been charged & indicted long ago. Some people maintain that FoxNews is entertainment. Ok, if I get a gun and hold it to your head is that entertainment too? If I do it on tv does that make it entertainment?
So let’s say for the sake of argument individuals on FoxNews can’t be charged with a crime for doing what they do. If we can’t charge them with crimes individually, why not charge the corporation(s) they work for? The answer would probably be that these criminal statutes apply only to people. But, here’s the thing, if corporations are “people” insofar as they can donate to political campaigns as the Supreme Court has ruled, why can’t corporations be deemed “people” for the purpose of charging them with crimes against the State?
My usual feeling about these things is that if I’ve thought of this, others have surely thought of it as well, so it’s probably not something that will work. I don’t know about you, but I’m beyond sick and tired of whacko extremist tv persons doing everything they can to destroy our democracy without consequence. It’s highly irresponsible, subversive & destructive. That kind of speech is not protected by the Constitution but no one seems to be interested in stopping it. I think FoxNews, hate radio & certain internet platforms are the main reason we’re where we are today and I want it to stop.
Interesting thought about the DOJ. I totally agree that it's beyond time to do something about this. They are a clear and present danger to our country, on several levels. I too, need to see people doing this face consequences. People like this have been getting away with this for far too long.
Only financial pressure will bring down this behemoth. It would behoove someone to go through their broadcasts for the past 2-3 years with a finetooth comb and tease out all of the actionable statements, then work hard on getting the offended parties to sue. I've often noticed in medicine (my field) that 99% of the "this could generate a lawsuit" incidents do not, in fact, generate a lawsuit. It is a huge untapped potential for transfer of wealth from one group to another. In this case, enough suits from offended entities (organizations, firms, religious groups, whatever) might have a real effect. Needs a coordinator to initiate such a drive.
I agree that confronting the Danger of Fox news promoting Dangerous Democracy ending Fascist lies is a step we need to take starting now. I was so tired after the Trump years and the insurrection gave us a bit of a reprieve since America and the world was shook awake with that horrific act of Trump spun violence. Fox Lies must be called out continuously now.... All Americans need to begin again in calling out “Lies and Liars” not sugar coating them as “falsehoods” and “misstatements”.... Collectively we waited too long the last 4 years and the Trump Fascism “mold” grew from the belief of those LIES. I own that I am ANTI FASCIST... I am ANTIFA 😠 Maybe if we Americans agree to identify as being anti fascist we can convert and subvert the Lies and Liars. I noticed that those Americans that expressed fear of Antifa to me this last year did not even know what it was. I first replied to them that “ I am Antifa” then my next words were: “ I am Anti-Fascist”. A bit more about Trump, the current GOP, & Authoritarianism then They too said that they are Antifa. Trump and Fox used the words “Antifa” and “Democrat” as a fear inducing tool and it worked on people who couldn’t figure out for themselves what those words mean. When we say the word “Democracy” the Insurrectionists think the word means “Democrats” and want to end us.
Upwards of 83% of republicans believe Joe Biden isn't our president. The right-wing bubble has been feeding conservatives lies, and it caught up to them on January 6th. https://www.businessinsider.com/majority-republicans-dont-believe-biden-won-election-gallup-poll-2020-12