I had the opportunity yesterday to talk to Tristan Snell, a former Assistant Attorney General for New York State and author of the excellent Taking Down Trump about his successful prosecution of Donald Trump and Trump University. He was as disturbed as I was about the Trump-friendly questioning by the Supreme Court’s conservative majority during oral arguments Thursday over the issue of absolute presidential immunity. “Yesterday really knocked me sideways,” he said.
I’ve got to be honest, I think I finally might have had the blinkers removed from my eyes on the Supreme Court. I’m somebody who grew up very much respecting the court system. I’ve been a lawyer for 20 years. When I grew up, the Supreme Court meant something and it was an establishment that had a lot of credibility. And even when you didn’t agree with them, there was a gravitas there…The residual respect that some of us have for the Supreme Court needs to be tossed away completely. I keep thinking we’ve seen the bottom of what they’re doing and then they go lower.
While Snell anticipated a clear 7-2 or 6-3 majority saying that Trump is not immune, now he’s not so sure. “I never thought this would go the wrong way,” he said. “I thought the problem was the delay.” And he now worries that a decision coming at the end of the court’s term in late June could cause the Jack Smith prosecution of Trump’s role on January 6 to “go away”—and maybe even undermine the state-level prosecutions. This has strengthened his recognition that, ultimately, it’s up to voters to hold Trump accountable at the ballot box.
As for the court? Snell was sickened (as was I) by Justice Gorsuch insisting their task is to write “a rule for the ages.” Federalist Society conservatives who used to rail against legislating from the bench are now exploiting their power to do exactly that. We already saw that when they rejected settled law (and the will of the public) by stripping away women’s reproductive rights and overturning Roe v. Wade.
What do you think? How broken is the Supreme Court? How did their questioning on Thursday or their overturning of Roe or other actions—including the unethical conduct of Clarence Thomas and his refusal to recuse himself in cases involving January 6—affect your thinking about the court? And do you think short-term change is possible, be it from new appointments in a second Biden term or an expanded number of justices? Or are we looking at decades to repair the damage caused by this Supreme Court?
As always, I look forward to your observations and the opportunity for this community to learn from each other. Please do be respectful. Trolling will not be tolerated.
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*Photo: U.S. Supreme Court building by Douglas Rissing via Getty Images.
Would it be feasible to give a heads-up to the Court members in the form of looking into impeaching Justice Thomas. The Constitution states that Justices "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour." I don't see how he has lived up to that standard.
Not with this current Congress or Senate. Only if and until Biden is elected and the Congress and Senate gain enough seats to actually enact laws can anyone even think about removing Thomas.
67 Votes to Convict and Remove. Moscow Mitch had two chances to permanently remove Trump's chances at returning to the Oval Office and McConnells lust for power over ride any chance of him doing what was best for the Republic
I was going to say something similar. It would also require him to have more capacity for shame than his and Ginni's hero. Yours is even better, because it says he would imitate TFG precisely.
There is a dark side to Capitalism - we see it happen when rules and regulations are removed, allowing the 1% to make massive amounts of money & pay no taxes. The middle class disappears and we have the HAVES and HAVE NOTS. No in-betweens. It began with the fallacy of "trickle down economics" which was BS. We now have "Crony Capitalism" which benefits the few and harms the many.
The first shots of the war that the US right declared on the US left began in 1969, when a paranoid, elitist billionaire, trust fund baby, found it appalling that some uppity black students were protesting for fairer treatment, in the halls of the billionaire's alma mater, Cornell. It marked the beginning of billionaire charitable Foundations' decades long use of their vast wealth for subversive right-wing indoctrination in our nation's colleges, universities and law schools. It also marked the beginning of charitable foundation think tanks and the billionaire charitable Foundation's use as a tax avoidance, and to fund political subversion. The goal was to buy friendly treatment for the wealthy and generate motivation for a willingness to work tirelessly, politically to keep workers wages low, to undermine regulations that keep us all healthier & safer, and most important of all, to provide more wealthy tax cuts so the wealthy can buy even more tax cuts from politicians.(The first sample is free.)
But that was just the beginning of the war, Justice Lewis Powell released his infamous Powell memo in 1971, laying out the battle strategy for how the right could seize power & covertly inject right wing bias into our government and society. In the 1980's Charles Koch began using his Koch Foundation to fund multiple think tanks (along with other like-minded billionaires) to further promote predatory capitalism and further undermine a democratic government for non-wealthy and non-white people.
It has taken the GOP 55 years to degrade our nation politically to the anti-democratic Supreme Court and the lawless corrupt right-wing that we're observing today. To gain further advantage, as if that weren't enough, with zeal typically demonstrated by cults, the right has adopted subversive tactics and talking points that Kremlin operatives developed with the KGB (later FSB) to undermine democracies.
Jane Mayer has put together a tremendous body of investigative journalism laying out, what Hillary has aptly named, a "vast right wing conspiracy"; a conspiracy that is now on the verge of converting the US from the predatory capitalist country that the right has spawned, into an overtly fascist nation. See-
Agreed! These are not conservative judges at all. They are society changers, staking out laws that most often don’t understand or care for society in general, nor is there any compassion or humanity in their rulings. They are purchased and fully paid for. Stooges ruining peoples’ lives.
At the very least he can use his new power as monarch to clear up a few seats on the bench. Whose going to say otherwise? The court that said presidents are kings?
That’s exactly it, and likely what Justice Kavanaugh alluded to when he spoke about a rule for the ages. Though this special prosecutor recommended against prosecuting the current president that wouldn’t stop the next A.G. from prosecuting.
I had the same reaction. The women justices did a better job with questioning and synthesizing the drivel from the defense counsel than did any of the men. I have lost all respect for the current right wing, and at times arrogant, politicized 2/3 of the court.
I’m afraid that the Court is irreparably broken. It was the last bastion of civility left in government, and now it too is corrupted. It is indeed true that everything Trump touches dies…
The largest hand/blame in corruption belongs to the wealthy billionaires that have zero allegiance to the USA & fell in love with Vladimir Putin's autocratic strongman model of government. The pathologically greedy can never get enough, history is littered with the destruction they've visited on the rest of humanity, through their insatiable greed. They've turned the Supreme Court into a banana Republic court and turned many of our law schools into right wing indoctrination centers. We must get some judges on the court that will neutralize the GOP fascist indoctrination held on to by current occupants.
Very soon a jury is going to find that Trump, beyond begging Russia to interfere in our 2016 election, directly interfered himself, through felonious catch and kill bribery, to hide a multitude of his crimes.
This will be, collectively, undeniable evidence that Trump cheated, and his presidency was illegitimate. So, not only are 4 justices bound by conflict of interest ethics to recuse, but Trump's 3 selected justices lack legitimacy, by virtue of Trump's illegitimate theft of the US presidency. There are, additionally, 226 federal judges with the same defect, of being birthed through the collective Trump, V. Putin and anti-American billionaire corruption and Trump's fraudulent election rigging. Vladimir Putin's fondest wish was to disrupt and give the US and Western democracy, (the object of his intensely held hatred) a black eye. With Donald Trump & fascist disinformation tactics, Putin succeeded in damaging democracy beyond his wildest dreams. It will take a great effort by voters, to put these well funded, highly motivated by their brainwashed contempt, enemies of democracy and fairness, back into the box they crawled out of.
Actually, not much Trump at all. Trump was just their stooge who signed the papers! This court takeover was in the works for years. Trump, himself, had no clue who Gorsuch, Cavanaugh and Barrett even were. They were just served up to him by McConnell and the anti-American conservative societies.
Our Supreme Court is captured. Just like our regulatory agencies. Our ship of state requires a complete overhaul and while we’re at it, let’s do away with the electoral college.
Mr. Burke, I’m one of those who used to work at a Federal agency; now retired. Actually, most of the people there are still, for the most part, passionate civil servants, professionally trained in their vocations, and beholden to neither party. The people I worked for were, for sure, totally dedicated to the job and keeping America safe and prosperous. Trump and his enablers have their targets set on completely dismantling the “administrative state” if and when he’s re-elected. Look at the Project 2025 document. Also, Michael Lewis’ 2018 book, _The Fifth Risk_, is all about how the first Trump administration tried—and succeeded, to a great extent—to put loyalists in the place of civil-servant experts. Worth a read. Trump 2.0 will be much, much worse. I’m glad I’m retired—but I won’t stop fighting for what I know is right, either.
Thank you for your service David. I happen to have done 13 years active duty military and 27 in state service. I share your conclusion that the majority of employees working on the inside are doing so honorably…. to the extent that their politically appointed bosses allow them to do so. My comments were specific to the political appointees at the top. I should’ve made that point more clearly.
You've probably heard of Marc Elias, he is a Constitutional lawyer and has a very good legal organization that fights for democracy and democratic values. He and his organization have pushed back hard against GOP laws & attempts to disenfranchise, suppress and purge voters. His YouTube and website explaination of Project 2025 can be found here.
Once there are Democratic majorities in the House and Senate put in an exception to the filibuster for expanding the court. Expand it to thirteen. Put in enforceable ethics rules. Impeach Thomas.
I firmly believe in expanding the court, but they need to lock down the criteria that the number of justices will always be tied to how many lawful circuits, to keep future bad actors from adding even more. Then I suppose they'd have to carefully write the criteria for how they form new circuits, so the future crooks wouldn't take advantage that way either!
I was aghast at the pretzel twists some of the Justices used to question the attorneys. Definitely shattered any sense of gravitas the Court might have retained. Something has to be done to restore our faith. Term limits might help as well as expanding the number at least to cover all the circuits.
Apparently so. Like the President, the only way to remove them is impeachment and conviction by Congress. This actually came up in the arguments. Barrett asked Glump’s stooge if others, such as SCOTUS justices, could be indicted & tried even if they had not been removed by impeachment. The answer was “Yes” in a roundabout way.
Sauer said “former Solicitor General Robert Bork explicitly determined that was the case …and the sequence is mandatory only as to the president. That is DOJ’s view of the original understanding of the impeachment judgment clause, which is exactly our position.”
Wonder if they have any evidence of Thomas committing indictable offenses?
Pretzel questions allow justices (and lower judges) to challenge extremes of appellants' legal positions. Unfortunately the majority questioning tips their hands so appellants know how to proceed in remanded questions.
Thanks, Margaret. I knew I should have gone law school. I just didn’t want to dress the part nor refrain from yelling bullshit in court. Title searching has suited me better—and guess whose real estate holdings are incredibly convoluted (did a bit of investigating just for fun).
I'm sickened by this whole mess. I too "lawyered" for 20 years and cannot (but I do) believe what is happening. So, if they grant immunity before the election, can Biden use it to stay in office and expand the Supreme Court with a more logical thought process? Sheez...never thought I would say those words. 😩
Or could President Biden order the assassination of Trump for his corruption? Just saying could this be a case of what’s immune for Trump because he had total immunity, wouldn’t Biden be just as immune?
They are pretty devious. I wouldn’t put it past them. Aileen Canon has almost no experience at all. I am pretty sure Leonard Leo is calling the shots on the classified document charges. She has been in the FS for a long time and her husband works for trumps mob buddy, John Rassati. Just a coincidence.
Media should drop all courtesies, announce loudly and repeatedly the rulings and other signs of a deeply biased SCOTUS. The majority Justices are conniving political power players posing as public servants.
In a failure to keep religion separated from our government, we now see the horrific consequences. Morality police with absolute immunity themselves. "Just-us's" who are tools of the wealthy.
Interesting to see you link religion and the wealthy. Isn't the quote "It will be easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven" attributed to Jesus? And yet the wealthy want to impose their version of Christianity on the country.
Does Leonard Leo and his Opus Dei sound familiar? Six of those justices are very tight with him. Clarence Thomas is god Father to one of Leo’s daughter’s. Kavanaugh had lots of help getting his position and a lot of money spent t on him to make those college day antics disappear and all of his debt just seemed to disappear, Alito is corrupt, Gorsuch likes the benefits that the federalist lavish, Thomas really likes the lavish life that is made possible for him and his “inter-racial” marriage to an insurrectionist., They started grooming Barrett while she was in college and I would imagine she came into that position with no baggage or unpaid debt. Robert’s is just as bad as the rest of the Federalist group. Curious to see what Leo does next with his newly started Freedom Fund that he started with that $1.9 Bn donation that he received. Everybody seems to overlook all of the federal and state judges that he has managed to get placed including Aileen Canon
In Florida, I saw young college students groomed by a group similar to the Federalist Society and these students were included in political meetings, conferences and given enough responsibility and atta boys to groom them as future judges and leaders of a cult.
In my lifetime, I’m not sure I’ve ever held much of a respect. Deciding Bush over Gore, the Hobby Lobby vote, corporations are people, Clarence Thomas’s sexual harassment of Anita Hill… Ugh. So gross and it allowed for so much corruption to seep in. …and it’s gotten so bad now with bribes from corporations/billionaires, and lies about respecting settled law on Roe, and Thomas not recusing himself on anything related to the insurrection and on and on.
I say Biden uses his “new found Supreme Court immunity ruling” to clean house and send the liars away. Start a new court and give them terms, no more lifetime appointments.
In the best kind of world, we come out in never seen before numbers and pack every level of government with true blue 💙 and honest do-gooders! And people remember they have a conscience and abide by ethical behavior. Sounds like a dream, and it is, but I still hold hope that most people will be so finally sickened by witnessing what these unethical “judges”, tr*mp and MAGA a-holes are doing now that they decide to do their part to turn it all around!
The unelected, but politically appointed, Supreme Court has now become The Extreme Court, legislating from the bench and overturning long standing precedent against the will of the people. It needs to be significantly expanded, to at least 11 members, with a maximum term of 10 years, perhaps less.
And while we’re at it, get rid of the electoral college, a total white elephant (!) which enables losers to become leaders, which they never should be allowed to do. The popular vote should rule, as it does in most other democracies.
The Senate can do away with the filibuster at least to expand SCOTUS because otherwise it takes 60 votes. I think reorganization should be a majority vote without the filibuster. There is a plan to restructure SCOTUS.
I’m sort of ignoring the electoral college thing because eliminating it would require amending the Constitution. But a more democracy oriented SCOTUS might be open to reforms not required by the Constitution.
I believe we are at a major breaking point of our judicial systems. Through deep reporting and research from actual reporters (take lessons FOX) we have learned just how corrupt the bench has become. Especially Thomas and Alito. Want my vote? Fly me somewhere expensive, buy a house or support my family in some monetary way. How abput the vote to release the phone texts from J6. THat went to the sSCOTUS bench. the vote was 8-1 to release the texts. Who was the one vote against the idea? Clarence Thomas, whose wife was heavily involved in those texts to attempt the overthrow of the election. If Thomas didn't recuse himself from that, what makes anyone think he would ever recuse himself. Why can't SCOTUS police themselves? So, yes, we have to keep Joe in the White House, then Hakeem Jeffries in 2028 for 8 years, take over both chambers, and maybe we can fix this country! Did you listen to Bill Barr this week??! What a sack...what a weasel.Very concerned if Blue doesn't show up in November. My dream is that for every judge at any level, and for the folks in DC. Once you make it to those positions of power in our country, Red, Blue, Dem, Repub, all those allegiances must be put away, and they just become Americans, working for the American people who put them there. Aerosmith had a song for that, "Dream On"
That 8-1 loss for Thomas is precisely why he wouldn’t recuse himself from this immunity hearing. If he can get immunity for Trump, those damning texts by his wife won’t be revealed to the world. Why she hasn’t been indicted is beyond me.
The transparent right wing channels can get SCOTUS attention on desired political goals. That leads to leads to tiny ginned-up cases over connived on-point facts. SCOTUS gabs and elevates those case to constitutional importance.
If the Court gives immunity to Trump our Constitutional form of government dies. I’m back to being as terrified as I was in 2016. The Pandemic was somehow easier to handle than my fears about the US.
So let me get this straight - for Tristan Snell the blinkers (sic blinders) are only now removed? Go back and re-read Citizens United, Bush v Gore, District of Columbia v Heller (and its progeny), Shelby County v Holder, Dred Scott, the tobacco lawyer Lewis Powell's memorandum I could go on and on and on) - and then answer that question.
No disrespect to Snell, but this has been a long history with this institution. As a consequence of the Nixon and Reagan appointees and those from long before, the court's thin veneer of decorum is razor thin. Currently, they are a vivid extension of the once Moscow Mitch led Senate majority.
Whether Biden wins in November or agent orange, their role may well be forever changed. A Biden victory may result in their numbers increasing to more closely conform to the number of federal circuits; and, their behavior will be guide by an enforceable code of conduct. An agent orange victory may manifest their destiny to total irrelevance - an irony that is sickening.
How many Supreme Court cases do you think were decided in favor of big businesses that bought the judges to rule in t their favor? How many children have been killed in mass shootings because the republicans are in the pocket of the NRA and gun lobby groups?
The Un-Justices of this now Un-Supreme Court have managed to denigrate and destroy the trust we once all had in the Supreme Court. Whether agreeing with their decisions or not, at least we once believed they were upholding the Constitution. Sadly, I no longer believe that. Listening to them on Thursday was sickening and disheartening. They couldn't have done a better job to destroy the remnants of their reputation (already weakened by overturning Roe v. Wade after they got on the court by swearing they would uphold precedent) had it been their goal to destroy the respect our nation had in its Supreme Court.
The off topic quality of the discussion of immunity by 4 justices was strange. The supreme court usually confines itself to a narrow scope of the case before them. These justices were not interested in whether the president can sic a mob on the capital... they wanted to wander around in the future of what could possibly happen bad for a president--not the constitution, not the people. This change in the supreme court's role may ultimately be as bad for us as their questions seemed to indicate for the rule of law.
I agree Lynn. It was almost like the right wing of the bench knew Trump loses on any real discussion of the narrow question (the court themselves crafted), but in the continuing spirit of delay they wanted to drag out the proceedings for an extra two and a half hours to voice any Fox News fever dreams that *might* give Trump some benefit of the doubt.
“The court has formulated an overly broad question to be answered in the appeal, rather than the straightforward one: whether Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for the crimes alleged in the indictment obtained by special counsel Jack Smith.”
While SCOTUS cynically debated yesterday the meaning of immunity for Donald Trump they swept the fact under the rug that he was ultimately behind the idea of hanging his Vice President.
How could any one in their right mind, especially a judge, smugly quibble over words about what theoretically constitutes “immunity” from 30,000 feet, while blowing past the noose in the Capitol steps on Jan. 6, 2021?
You’ll love this quote from the AP by worst historian and master of fakery, Alito.
—One particularly notable hypothetical came from Alito, who raised the prospect that an outgoing president who loses a closely contested race but fears indictment upon leaving office might try to remain in power, creating “a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country as a democracy.”—
Trump’s attorney repeatedly mentioned that whether or not a president could be immune from prosecution for their actions was dependent upon the “context” of the action. So apparently if Biden figured out the correct “context” to make it an official act, he could conceivably jail Trump and the Supreme Court Justices and appoint a new Court. Problem solved.
When Democrats have a majority in the House and Senate, and have won the Presidency (pray this happens this November) there has to be a major PUSH to clean up this court by expanding it ASAP. Are there any other fixes to this politicized court? Impeach Thomas?
As much as he needs to be impeached, I don't think we could ever pull it off. But if we set up new ethical guidelines that he had to follow, maybe he wouldn't be able to accept all those bribes anymore. That alone would really help!
I, too, have a long history of respecting the court. I’m still amused when one or more justices who are supposedly Trump judges rule for the law and not for his interests. But I’m also disturbed by the seeming corruption and politicization of the court. What’s worse, they seem completely immune to even reasoned criticism. And why not? Lifetime tenure covers a lot of sins. And completely destroys any “red-face” tests.
There are actually two different Supreme Courts at work.
One addresses legal issues outside of partisan politics and culture wars. It often decides cases unanimously or by wide margins and sometimes across political divides. This Court is more conservative than I would prefer, but it tends to decide cases well within the legal mainstream.
But for political / culture war cases, the Court is a partisan extreme right wing exercise in pure political power. Its only guiding principle is how to ensure a right wing victory. All purported conservative legal philosophies of textualism, originalism, and judicial restraint are jettisoned as needed. Even basic judicial ethics are trampled upon.
THAT Court deserves no respect or presumption of legitimacy. None of its opinions should be considered to have any moral authority or precedential value beyond the time when they lose enough justices to keep. When eventually they lose their majority, those decisions will be tossed into dustbin of ignominy where they belong.
I am so thoroughly disgusted and angry at these un-elected, self righteous men who think they can make decisions “for the ages” without dealing with the actual case at hand! It is time to insist that the court is too narrow and too partisan (not to mention unethical—thank you, Clarence Thomas), and needs to be unpacked. Let’s look at the numbers of circuit courts and amp the numbers on the Supreme Court up to a reasonable degree.
In Gore vrs Bush, Scalia did not completely corrupt the SCOTUS but he laid the cornerstone. Scalia inserted the Court (as himself) into the election beyond any recognized standard legal prescription of called-for process of confirmation, and his remarcks throughout were tinged with a vibrancy of authoritarian aire that was chesty and audacious. Most lawyers at the time I assume were somewhat schocked, but this was the Supreme Court, the top of the legal hill, and lawyers by instinct play things close to the chest while putting their fingers in the air, always reading how the wind blows, placing verity second to vulnerability. From Scalia on, the Highest Court has evolved with increased political insertions and the politicalization now seems complete. Sadly, meaningful remedy is mentioned only in murmurs--more judges, limited terms, etc--the voices that could be raised are as yet only weak and perfunctory. If enough fire were raised, it could become a strong issue in the election. Left as it is, the SCOTUS remains untouchable.
If he's freaked out now and grew up under the Rehnquist Court or earlier versions going back to Burger, when things started going south, he'd REALLY be blown away if he had grown up under the Court of Warren & William O. Douglas, Thurgood Marshall...
Rehnquist was a weirdo hack who cut his bonafides in Arizona intimidating Latino voters & ushering in the current era of voter suppression. And now we've got the Ginni Thomas & scAlito Court...
Well, here’s where I sit. The current SCOTUS is bought, and paid for. Full stop. The court must be expanded, term limits need to be implemented, along with an enforceable code of ethics with outside oversight. The self enforced COE isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on with this group. It’s a joke. Any COE must have outside oversight by an ethics committee of some sort. Just my take. 😎
Far right Justices are clearly looking for a way to do minimal damage to Trump. They have made this about future bad actors who might seek to punish their rivals, instead of the current bad actor, Trump, who tried to subvert a lawful election after all legal remedies had failed. They keep avoiding the actual judicial issue in front of them and seem to be trying to legislate from the bench.
And no one has asked Thomas, who is obviously conflicted, to step down.
SCOTUS, looks more and more like a fascist court protecting a fascist candidate. It’s sickening to watch.
If they thought he was innocent of the crimes, they would rule quickly against him and let the trials go forward before the election. They know very well that he's guilty, so they want to pause everything as long as they can.
Marveling at the irony of protecting a president from criminal abuse who has already, and on multiple occasions, threatened to do just that to CANDIDATES who would not enjoy any such protections.
The court, formerly so eminent and respected, now oblivious to the present lethal assault on our institutions-judiciary foremost among them-as to dawdle away precious time on some distant wispy abstraction that might be problematic but utterly reliant on our legal wisdom to avoid. “For the ages” may well be our ending.
I am flabbergasted that SCOTUS could both ignore the plain letter of the law in the 14th amendment and yet find cause for immunity that exists nowhere.
If Presidental immunity is found to exist then we have ourselves a monarchy.
It is well past time to expand the court by 4 members. There should be one justice for each circuit court. Biden and Schumer should pull a McConnell, appoint 4 of the most qualified liberal judges and get them approved less than 3 weeks before the election. Then pass a law that the number of justices cannot exceed the number of circuit courts.
I am still in shock. The MAGA movement has caused me to worry about our republic but I now realize the real evil is Mitch McConnell and his packed court. I feel like I am watching the world of "Prophet Song" unfold before my very eyes.
When McConnell blocked Obama from appointing Garland, who is better suited and qualified to sit on the court than any of the 6 right wingers, who are blatantly unfit, the writing was on the wall..
I feel like you. The blinders are off. The sense of gravitas blown away. I have no respect for this court. I have no trust they will make decisions that buttress the laws of this country. And then my partner reminded me this isn’t new. People in positions of great power allow themselves to be corrupted. Isn’t that what we’re seeing here?
It was quite evident that the fanatical right wing Justices on the Supreme Court were not interested in focusing on the case before them, as is proper..
Instead, they leaned into bizarre hypotheticals, interrupting at seemingly every turn the Lawyer arguing for the Special Council.. In that spirit, I wonder how they would respond to the hypothetical of a Jan 6th Attack incited by a President that landed on their doorstep instead of our Capitol..
These right wing people on the court have gone way beyond their remit with malice and aforethought..They have ignored the basic principles of their responsibility and are manifestly unfit to be trusted in any capacity of jurisprudence..
For that matter, Thomas and Alito must be removed immediately..They have abdicated their oath, responsibility and duty..
It is difficult for me to wrap my head around the fact that there are so many in the legal community looking at them, who are so much better versed in the law, in the Constitution, its history, meaning and proper interpretation than these people..That they would conduct themselves as they have in the face of such scrutiny..
There must be swift action by those who are trying to preserve our Democracy.. There must be an intervention of some kind to stop the deliberate destruction of our Democracy.. There is no credibility or legitimacy with this court..It is a lawless arm of the GOP..I cannot begin to imagine what the thinking is of Jackson, Sotomayor or Kagan.. On the whole, they must be made an offer they can’t refuse..I do not see anything else that would be acceptable..They are literally a domestic enemy..
Trump demands be absolved of his past crimes. He can call anything "official" including his conspiracy to steal the Executive Branch, while yelling Stop the Steal. Which started as a money scam in April, 2016 by Roger Stone. Oldie but a goodie! The irony is lost on Alito and Thomas. The secondary ask is to give cover for his potential future crimes, which are no doubt in the planning stages now. By his creative "no limit" advisors.
In their hypotheticals, the Justices pondered the case of a President (ignore his "motives" says Gorsuch) assassinating a "corrupt opponent". Trump's attorney said, YES that would be covered by the immunity he is asking for. What's shocking is they failed to discuss that a President, under the cover of claimed immunity, could decide that one or more of them is a "corrupt opponent". Alito and Thomas must think they are "immune" from his wrath. However, if they don't notice that Trump a backstabber, they aren't paying attention.
Imagine this scenario. Try to think like Roger Stone and Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller.
1. SCOTUS rules in his favor on immunity for official acts or pushes the case back to Chutkin and the appeal process resets. Giving him what he wants, short term, either way.
2. Trump is elected. On Day One he appoints his lackeys to run the Justice Dept, FBI, CIA, Joint Chiefs and all the positions needed for tight control.
3. Soon after, he signs an Executive Order that reduces the Supreme Court to six Justices. The three non-loyal liberal justices are arrested and accused of "corruption" and treason. His kangaroo court quickly finds them guilty. The penalty is exile to a military facility on Guam. Every judge in the nation takes notice. They could be next.
4. Trump is accused of committing crimes by the Dems and others but he has the cover of "immunity" granted by the previous SCOTUS. Which really doesn't matter now, other than political/meme cover. Who needs immunity if you control the court system?
5. Trump claims the Executive Branch is co-equal with the Judicial Branch. So any objections are deemed moot by the Press and public.
6. Trump has his AG and FBI arrest members of Congress and the Press that loudly oppose him. The loyal members (the 147 Objectors, for example) and the directed "journalists" (Fox/OANN?Newsmax) serve his daily whims.
7. Life goes on in the new America. Which now looks very much like Putin's Russia.
There is a rather large “IF” in play here..Trump has yet to be elected and the court has not yet ruled..In my opinion, what is required now
vis-à-vis the right wing of the court is there must be a clandestine action taken by those who are so positioned to make them an offer they can’t refuse..please don’t mistake these remarks as hyperbolic, I mean every word..We are at war with domestic enemies..That court is but one..
As has been suggested by others it is necessary to reconfigure the SCOTUS. After Biden wins reelection he should immediately set about to add members to the court. It has been suggested by others who are more familiar with the Federal court system that there should be 13 members and that lifetime appointments should be terminated. But, I don’t believe Biden would do this as he is at heart a very conventional politician.
The Supreme Court, in my mind, are Right Wing, Hacks. I’m Appalled by the actions of our highest court.,but Not Surprised . We have to work harder this Election Cycle to insure the Rights of Women, access to Voting, and by insuring the Rights of ALL People. So, we have a lot of work to do. Keep our Eye on the Prize, sort of
Speak. And, by all means, Expand the Supreme Court, take it away from the Right-Wing Hacks who control the Court.
It also holds true for state and federal courts. I read that Leonard Leo was responsible for over two hundred judges being assigned to state and federal courts.. that is one of the reasons that Trump lawyers try to court shop
He’s ALSO very corrupt, accepting huge sums from billionaires to corrupt the entire federal judiciary.
They are all doing things like drinking $500 bottles of wine courtesy of Nazi-loving billionaires to throw cases in a way that helps these billionaires, then whinging about how they are piously saving the USA for Jesus (who loves rich people and hates trans people).
I don’t people who are that good at lying to themselves can be stopped by anything like ethics laws. The American public has to do it…somehow. There are a substantial number who are brainlessly voting to breathe toxic air and drink poison water and lose access to social security or education for their children —for Jesus, who again, loves pollution and hates women and children—so I am not very optimistic about the situation.
Leonard Leo has a lust for money and wealth, has nothing to do with God. It’s his fancy lifestyle and all of the status it gives him. Like his reserved space in the fancy wine cellar for his wine that’s more than the cost of a house for a bottle.
To me it is mindboggling that the supreme court actually exists of republican as democratic members; it should be without any bonds to a party, and let the judges see with every trial what the best way is to decide over it. Isn't Justice the woman with the blindfold on? Isn't it insane to have either a republican or democratic judge rule over any case? Judges should be without party; they are above it
Clarence has been misguided by his wife who is herself has harmed American Citizens. Donald will not be President. All the darkness is coming to light.
The Supreme Court members who are voting to let Donald off the hook are Obstructing Justice. Yes, a first as I see it.
If the Highest Court in the land is broken then it needs to be fixed. Remove the one's who choose not to follow the Constitution or the Laws of this country.
The only way to correct this court is for Trump to lose - badly - in November and the Congress and Senate to gain enough members to expand the SCOTUS AND HAVE THE BACKBONE TO DO IT. Democrats still hold out hope that the Golden Rule applies, that the playing field is even, that all rules are followed equally AND THEY ARE NOT. We have wasted decades with this mindset while the Mitch McConnells and the Bill Barrs of our world stripped away all pretense of neutrality regarding the POTUS and all of our courts. The SCOTUS is made up of 5 politicians, three who are unqualified to even sit on that bench given their inexperience, past misdeeds and their inability to separate their church from our state.
The Republican clown show has now permeated the Supreme Court. Thomas’ conflict of interest has once again reared its ugly head with the chief justice giving him a pass without even the hint of recusal. Gorsuch is sitting thanks only to McConnell telling President Obama that he couldn’t appoint a Supreme Court judge in the last year of the president’s tenure. As to Thomas, too bad the Justice Department didn’t do a thorough review of his wife’s involvement in Trump’s shadowy connections; there might have been enough cause to tie her behavior to Thomas himself.
Would it be feasible to give a heads-up to the Court members in the form of looking into impeaching Justice Thomas. The Constitution states that Justices "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour." I don't see how he has lived up to that standard.
Not with this current Congress or Senate. Only if and until Biden is elected and the Congress and Senate gain enough seats to actually enact laws can anyone even think about removing Thomas.
Even then. It takes a 2/3 vote to convict, not half plus one.
67 Votes to Convict and Remove. Moscow Mitch had two chances to permanently remove Trump's chances at returning to the Oval Office and McConnells lust for power over ride any chance of him doing what was best for the Republic
And so he lost control of his legacy. He knows it won’t be all the so-called “conservative” judges he got appointed.
Someone posted a good scenario today. Go ahead and impeach him, even if they won't convict, in hopes that the drama will force him into retirement.
Clarence would say look what a martyr I am - and double down.
https://www.businessinsider.com/clarence-thomas-told-clerks-he-wants-to-make-liberals-miserable-2022-6
I was going to say something similar. It would also require him to have more capacity for shame than his and Ginni's hero. Yours is even better, because it says he would imitate TFG precisely.
Something about it kept nagging me and later it dawned on me that I overlooked the obvious. He did this at his confirmation. (High-tech lynching) His supporters tried to revive it when allegations of corruption started piling up. There was a spurt of op-eds by GOPers: https://www.newsweek.com/second-high-tech-lynching-justice-clarence-thomas-opinion-1798999
How very pathetic.
Thomas has no morals or scruples that would make him step down - ever. He would have to be forcibly removed from the SCOTUS.
They have not
To me they need to be removed
Immediately
If the scotus were killing children behind those face placards we the people would never know
There is no transparency except for the unthinkable that assassination may be ruled as an official act
These 6 justices are killing p
Women already
They are murderers and thus us outright treason
They need to be arrested now
With a Synema and a Manchin, no way. The $$ disease have them locked into perpetuating the current system.
If Trump wins the judiciary will be one of the first to be diminished. To save themselves they should not support an authoritarian fascist.
Watched for 10mins on msnbc. Had to turn off. Gorsuch, Alito and Roberts made me ill.
If they give total immunity to Trump, the Court is done. Pack it into oblivion.
If they grant total immunity to Trump, we're all done.
If we don’t rein in unrestrained capitalism, we’re all done.
There is a dark side to Capitalism - we see it happen when rules and regulations are removed, allowing the 1% to make massive amounts of money & pay no taxes. The middle class disappears and we have the HAVES and HAVE NOTS. No in-betweens. It began with the fallacy of "trickle down economics" which was BS. We now have "Crony Capitalism" which benefits the few and harms the many.
Yep. So you see it too, huh?
The first shots of the war that the US right declared on the US left began in 1969, when a paranoid, elitist billionaire, trust fund baby, found it appalling that some uppity black students were protesting for fairer treatment, in the halls of the billionaire's alma mater, Cornell. It marked the beginning of billionaire charitable Foundations' decades long use of their vast wealth for subversive right-wing indoctrination in our nation's colleges, universities and law schools. It also marked the beginning of charitable foundation think tanks and the billionaire charitable Foundation's use as a tax avoidance, and to fund political subversion. The goal was to buy friendly treatment for the wealthy and generate motivation for a willingness to work tirelessly, politically to keep workers wages low, to undermine regulations that keep us all healthier & safer, and most important of all, to provide more wealthy tax cuts so the wealthy can buy even more tax cuts from politicians.(The first sample is free.)
But that was just the beginning of the war, Justice Lewis Powell released his infamous Powell memo in 1971, laying out the battle strategy for how the right could seize power & covertly inject right wing bias into our government and society. In the 1980's Charles Koch began using his Koch Foundation to fund multiple think tanks (along with other like-minded billionaires) to further promote predatory capitalism and further undermine a democratic government for non-wealthy and non-white people.
It has taken the GOP 55 years to degrade our nation politically to the anti-democratic Supreme Court and the lawless corrupt right-wing that we're observing today. To gain further advantage, as if that weren't enough, with zeal typically demonstrated by cults, the right has adopted subversive tactics and talking points that Kremlin operatives developed with the KGB (later FSB) to undermine democracies.
Jane Mayer has put together a tremendous body of investigative journalism laying out, what Hillary has aptly named, a "vast right wing conspiracy"; a conspiracy that is now on the verge of converting the US from the predatory capitalist country that the right has spawned, into an overtly fascist nation. See-
https://facultygov.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/261/2019/10/Mayer-article-on-Right-Wing-Billionaires.pdf
I appreciate your share, Richard. It answers some questions I had and begs a few new ones. What was your journey to learning all of this?
Agreed! These are not conservative judges at all. They are society changers, staking out laws that most often don’t understand or care for society in general, nor is there any compassion or humanity in their rulings. They are purchased and fully paid for. Stooges ruining peoples’ lives.
Aye
I wish just one of the liberal justices had raised the question, "What level of immunity does this court want to extend to Joe Biden?"
Because it's going to be a real pretzel of a ruling that somehow can grant immunity to Republican presidents, but not the one currently in office. :P
If Trump is granted immunity, then Biden should call Seal Team 6 and do us all a favor.
At the very least he can use his new power as monarch to clear up a few seats on the bench. Whose going to say otherwise? The court that said presidents are kings?
That’s exactly it, and likely what Justice Kavanaugh alluded to when he spoke about a rule for the ages. Though this special prosecutor recommended against prosecuting the current president that wouldn’t stop the next A.G. from prosecuting.
They're unbridled from laws and integrity. They Do Not Care.
I had the same reaction. The women justices did a better job with questioning and synthesizing the drivel from the defense counsel than did any of the men. I have lost all respect for the current right wing, and at times arrogant, politicized 2/3 of the court.
Agreed
I’m afraid that the Court is irreparably broken. It was the last bastion of civility left in government, and now it too is corrupted. It is indeed true that everything Trump touches dies…
Not just Trump. McConnell had a very big hand in stacking the court.
The largest hand/blame in corruption belongs to the wealthy billionaires that have zero allegiance to the USA & fell in love with Vladimir Putin's autocratic strongman model of government. The pathologically greedy can never get enough, history is littered with the destruction they've visited on the rest of humanity, through their insatiable greed. They've turned the Supreme Court into a banana Republic court and turned many of our law schools into right wing indoctrination centers. We must get some judges on the court that will neutralize the GOP fascist indoctrination held on to by current occupants.
Very soon a jury is going to find that Trump, beyond begging Russia to interfere in our 2016 election, directly interfered himself, through felonious catch and kill bribery, to hide a multitude of his crimes.
This will be, collectively, undeniable evidence that Trump cheated, and his presidency was illegitimate. So, not only are 4 justices bound by conflict of interest ethics to recuse, but Trump's 3 selected justices lack legitimacy, by virtue of Trump's illegitimate theft of the US presidency. There are, additionally, 226 federal judges with the same defect, of being birthed through the collective Trump, V. Putin and anti-American billionaire corruption and Trump's fraudulent election rigging. Vladimir Putin's fondest wish was to disrupt and give the US and Western democracy, (the object of his intensely held hatred) a black eye. With Donald Trump & fascist disinformation tactics, Putin succeeded in damaging democracy beyond his wildest dreams. It will take a great effort by voters, to put these well funded, highly motivated by their brainwashed contempt, enemies of democracy and fairness, back into the box they crawled out of.
I really hope you are right but I'm not willing to stake lives on it.
Actually, not much Trump at all. Trump was just their stooge who signed the papers! This court takeover was in the works for years. Trump, himself, had no clue who Gorsuch, Cavanaugh and Barrett even were. They were just served up to him by McConnell and the anti-American conservative societies.
That is the goal: destroy the institutions.
He’s only a symptom of the lust for status, wealth, and power we suffer from.
Glad the minority justices courteously respond while they display open their disdain for the majority's intellectual trickery.
They're too congenial
Our Supreme Court is captured. Just like our regulatory agencies. Our ship of state requires a complete overhaul and while we’re at it, let’s do away with the electoral college.
Mr. Burke, I’m one of those who used to work at a Federal agency; now retired. Actually, most of the people there are still, for the most part, passionate civil servants, professionally trained in their vocations, and beholden to neither party. The people I worked for were, for sure, totally dedicated to the job and keeping America safe and prosperous. Trump and his enablers have their targets set on completely dismantling the “administrative state” if and when he’s re-elected. Look at the Project 2025 document. Also, Michael Lewis’ 2018 book, _The Fifth Risk_, is all about how the first Trump administration tried—and succeeded, to a great extent—to put loyalists in the place of civil-servant experts. Worth a read. Trump 2.0 will be much, much worse. I’m glad I’m retired—but I won’t stop fighting for what I know is right, either.
Thank you for your service David. I happen to have done 13 years active duty military and 27 in state service. I share your conclusion that the majority of employees working on the inside are doing so honorably…. to the extent that their politically appointed bosses allow them to do so. My comments were specific to the political appointees at the top. I should’ve made that point more clearly.
You've probably heard of Marc Elias, he is a Constitutional lawyer and has a very good legal organization that fights for democracy and democratic values. He and his organization have pushed back hard against GOP laws & attempts to disenfranchise, suppress and purge voters. His YouTube and website explaination of Project 2025 can be found here.
https://youtu.be/rDikvtSEtMY?si=XBdheeTsrwvzd-HW
Once there are Democratic majorities in the House and Senate put in an exception to the filibuster for expanding the court. Expand it to thirteen. Put in enforceable ethics rules. Impeach Thomas.
Thomas' failure to recuse wrt J6-adjacent cases screams for media to take off their kid gloves.
Great, except for…who owns the media?!
He's ruled or is ruling on several J6-related cases. I'm waiting for when he has the gall to write one of the opinions.
I firmly believe in expanding the court, but they need to lock down the criteria that the number of justices will always be tied to how many lawful circuits, to keep future bad actors from adding even more. Then I suppose they'd have to carefully write the criteria for how they form new circuits, so the future crooks wouldn't take advantage that way either!
YES!
I was aghast at the pretzel twists some of the Justices used to question the attorneys. Definitely shattered any sense of gravitas the Court might have retained. Something has to be done to restore our faith. Term limits might help as well as expanding the number at least to cover all the circuits.
Remove the Trumpers from the Court.
Obstructed Justice is still a crime. Are the Justice's above the Laws of this Country?
Are they setting themselves up along with Trump?
I believe they are
Let's imagine Thomas' response if Jill Biden had participated in an election coup attempt.
Apparently so. Like the President, the only way to remove them is impeachment and conviction by Congress. This actually came up in the arguments. Barrett asked Glump’s stooge if others, such as SCOTUS justices, could be indicted & tried even if they had not been removed by impeachment. The answer was “Yes” in a roundabout way.
Sauer said “former Solicitor General Robert Bork explicitly determined that was the case …and the sequence is mandatory only as to the president. That is DOJ’s view of the original understanding of the impeachment judgment clause, which is exactly our position.”
Wonder if they have any evidence of Thomas committing indictable offenses?
We definitely need term limits!
Pretzel questions allow justices (and lower judges) to challenge extremes of appellants' legal positions. Unfortunately the majority questioning tips their hands so appellants know how to proceed in remanded questions.
Thanks, Margaret. I knew I should have gone law school. I just didn’t want to dress the part nor refrain from yelling bullshit in court. Title searching has suited me better—and guess whose real estate holdings are incredibly convoluted (did a bit of investigating just for fun).
I'm sickened by this whole mess. I too "lawyered" for 20 years and cannot (but I do) believe what is happening. So, if they grant immunity before the election, can Biden use it to stay in office and expand the Supreme Court with a more logical thought process? Sheez...never thought I would say those words. 😩
Or could President Biden order the assassination of Trump for his corruption? Just saying could this be a case of what’s immune for Trump because he had total immunity, wouldn’t Biden be just as immune?
Right? But I’m so jaded by them at this point, they’ll write in such a way that it only applies to him. 🙄
They are pretty devious. I wouldn’t put it past them. Aileen Canon has almost no experience at all. I am pretty sure Leonard Leo is calling the shots on the classified document charges. She has been in the FS for a long time and her husband works for trumps mob buddy, John Rassati. Just a coincidence.
I have called them the MAGA Scotus since McConnell broke the court. Now i just call them the Trump Defense Team.
Media should drop all courtesies, announce loudly and repeatedly the rulings and other signs of a deeply biased SCOTUS. The majority Justices are conniving political power players posing as public servants.
This type of media is dropping courtesies. Any media that is owned by gazillionaires will not bring attention to their own complicity.
And are sure getting their cut of the dirty money. They all need to be called out for what they are
In a failure to keep religion separated from our government, we now see the horrific consequences. Morality police with absolute immunity themselves. "Just-us's" who are tools of the wealthy.
Interesting to see you link religion and the wealthy. Isn't the quote "It will be easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven" attributed to Jesus? And yet the wealthy want to impose their version of Christianity on the country.
Bingo
There is too much arrogance on this court...Somehow, they came to believe they are the rule makers.
Does Leonard Leo and his Opus Dei sound familiar? Six of those justices are very tight with him. Clarence Thomas is god Father to one of Leo’s daughter’s. Kavanaugh had lots of help getting his position and a lot of money spent t on him to make those college day antics disappear and all of his debt just seemed to disappear, Alito is corrupt, Gorsuch likes the benefits that the federalist lavish, Thomas really likes the lavish life that is made possible for him and his “inter-racial” marriage to an insurrectionist., They started grooming Barrett while she was in college and I would imagine she came into that position with no baggage or unpaid debt. Robert’s is just as bad as the rest of the Federalist group. Curious to see what Leo does next with his newly started Freedom Fund that he started with that $1.9 Bn donation that he received. Everybody seems to overlook all of the federal and state judges that he has managed to get placed including Aileen Canon
In Florida, I saw young college students groomed by a group similar to the Federalist Society and these students were included in political meetings, conferences and given enough responsibility and atta boys to groom them as future judges and leaders of a cult.
🤢🤢🤢
In my lifetime, I’m not sure I’ve ever held much of a respect. Deciding Bush over Gore, the Hobby Lobby vote, corporations are people, Clarence Thomas’s sexual harassment of Anita Hill… Ugh. So gross and it allowed for so much corruption to seep in. …and it’s gotten so bad now with bribes from corporations/billionaires, and lies about respecting settled law on Roe, and Thomas not recusing himself on anything related to the insurrection and on and on.
I say Biden uses his “new found Supreme Court immunity ruling” to clean house and send the liars away. Start a new court and give them terms, no more lifetime appointments.
In the best kind of world, we come out in never seen before numbers and pack every level of government with true blue 💙 and honest do-gooders! And people remember they have a conscience and abide by ethical behavior. Sounds like a dream, and it is, but I still hold hope that most people will be so finally sickened by witnessing what these unethical “judges”, tr*mp and MAGA a-holes are doing now that they decide to do their part to turn it all around!
The unelected, but politically appointed, Supreme Court has now become The Extreme Court, legislating from the bench and overturning long standing precedent against the will of the people. It needs to be significantly expanded, to at least 11 members, with a maximum term of 10 years, perhaps less.
And while we’re at it, get rid of the electoral college, a total white elephant (!) which enables losers to become leaders, which they never should be allowed to do. The popular vote should rule, as it does in most other democracies.
The filibuster needs to be ended also.
The Senate can do away with the filibuster at least to expand SCOTUS because otherwise it takes 60 votes. I think reorganization should be a majority vote without the filibuster. There is a plan to restructure SCOTUS.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/policy-solutions/supreme-court-term-limits?utm_medium=PANTHEON_STRIPPED&utm_source=PANTHEON_STRIPPED
I’m sort of ignoring the electoral college thing because eliminating it would require amending the Constitution. But a more democracy oriented SCOTUS might be open to reforms not required by the Constitution.
I believe we are at a major breaking point of our judicial systems. Through deep reporting and research from actual reporters (take lessons FOX) we have learned just how corrupt the bench has become. Especially Thomas and Alito. Want my vote? Fly me somewhere expensive, buy a house or support my family in some monetary way. How abput the vote to release the phone texts from J6. THat went to the sSCOTUS bench. the vote was 8-1 to release the texts. Who was the one vote against the idea? Clarence Thomas, whose wife was heavily involved in those texts to attempt the overthrow of the election. If Thomas didn't recuse himself from that, what makes anyone think he would ever recuse himself. Why can't SCOTUS police themselves? So, yes, we have to keep Joe in the White House, then Hakeem Jeffries in 2028 for 8 years, take over both chambers, and maybe we can fix this country! Did you listen to Bill Barr this week??! What a sack...what a weasel.Very concerned if Blue doesn't show up in November. My dream is that for every judge at any level, and for the folks in DC. Once you make it to those positions of power in our country, Red, Blue, Dem, Repub, all those allegiances must be put away, and they just become Americans, working for the American people who put them there. Aerosmith had a song for that, "Dream On"
That 8-1 loss for Thomas is precisely why he wouldn’t recuse himself from this immunity hearing. If he can get immunity for Trump, those damning texts by his wife won’t be revealed to the world. Why she hasn’t been indicted is beyond me.
The transparent right wing channels can get SCOTUS attention on desired political goals. That leads to leads to tiny ginned-up cases over connived on-point facts. SCOTUS gabs and elevates those case to constitutional importance.
If the Court gives immunity to Trump our Constitutional form of government dies. I’m back to being as terrified as I was in 2016. The Pandemic was somehow easier to handle than my fears about the US.
So let me get this straight - for Tristan Snell the blinkers (sic blinders) are only now removed? Go back and re-read Citizens United, Bush v Gore, District of Columbia v Heller (and its progeny), Shelby County v Holder, Dred Scott, the tobacco lawyer Lewis Powell's memorandum I could go on and on and on) - and then answer that question.
No disrespect to Snell, but this has been a long history with this institution. As a consequence of the Nixon and Reagan appointees and those from long before, the court's thin veneer of decorum is razor thin. Currently, they are a vivid extension of the once Moscow Mitch led Senate majority.
Whether Biden wins in November or agent orange, their role may well be forever changed. A Biden victory may result in their numbers increasing to more closely conform to the number of federal circuits; and, their behavior will be guide by an enforceable code of conduct. An agent orange victory may manifest their destiny to total irrelevance - an irony that is sickening.
Owned by the FS and Leonard Leo. What else should we have expected?
How many Supreme Court cases do you think were decided in favor of big businesses that bought the judges to rule in t their favor? How many children have been killed in mass shootings because the republicans are in the pocket of the NRA and gun lobby groups?
I think removal proceedings should begin immediately for Justice Thomas. That will show the Court and everyone else that they are not above the law.
The Un-Justices of this now Un-Supreme Court have managed to denigrate and destroy the trust we once all had in the Supreme Court. Whether agreeing with their decisions or not, at least we once believed they were upholding the Constitution. Sadly, I no longer believe that. Listening to them on Thursday was sickening and disheartening. They couldn't have done a better job to destroy the remnants of their reputation (already weakened by overturning Roe v. Wade after they got on the court by swearing they would uphold precedent) had it been their goal to destroy the respect our nation had in its Supreme Court.
We were all horrified by the extremist justices assumptions and questioning... thus we saw
Cheating the Light
SCOTUS
April 24, 2024
In the well
deep into the heart
hangs a bucket
used for dipping
out what is vital
to caring for life.
Today, the bucket
rested its case
on the well’s wall.
Dogs snatch
the rope holding
the bucket
rip and tore to shreds
water’s hope
of reaching light
to quench
thirst for justice.
We race
to find a new
rope of hope.
The off topic quality of the discussion of immunity by 4 justices was strange. The supreme court usually confines itself to a narrow scope of the case before them. These justices were not interested in whether the president can sic a mob on the capital... they wanted to wander around in the future of what could possibly happen bad for a president--not the constitution, not the people. This change in the supreme court's role may ultimately be as bad for us as their questions seemed to indicate for the rule of law.
I agree, they even refused to actually discuss the actual issue .
I agree Lynn. It was almost like the right wing of the bench knew Trump loses on any real discussion of the narrow question (the court themselves crafted), but in the continuing spirit of delay they wanted to drag out the proceedings for an extra two and a half hours to voice any Fox News fever dreams that *might* give Trump some benefit of the doubt.
How to tell when there is an agenda …
“The court has formulated an overly broad question to be answered in the appeal, rather than the straightforward one: whether Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for the crimes alleged in the indictment obtained by special counsel Jack Smith.”
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/supreme-court-wrong-question-trump-immunity-case-rcna141509
Take a look at how the RW races to a SCOTUS review with RW policy dream scenarios.
While SCOTUS cynically debated yesterday the meaning of immunity for Donald Trump they swept the fact under the rug that he was ultimately behind the idea of hanging his Vice President.
Good point.
How could any one in their right mind, especially a judge, smugly quibble over words about what theoretically constitutes “immunity” from 30,000 feet, while blowing past the noose in the Capitol steps on Jan. 6, 2021?
You’ll love this quote from the AP by worst historian and master of fakery, Alito.
—One particularly notable hypothetical came from Alito, who raised the prospect that an outgoing president who loses a closely contested race but fears indictment upon leaving office might try to remain in power, creating “a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country as a democracy.”—
No matter how they rule, they’re already close to making it impossible for a trial and conviction before the election.
Their arrogance and condescension is appalling. Not one of them publicly called out clarence, ginny, or their hypocritical/unethical actions.
And let biden remove them. Since in their eyes he’s immune.
Not yet.
Broken & irreparable at this point! SCOTUS has to be revamped somehow!
Trump’s attorney repeatedly mentioned that whether or not a president could be immune from prosecution for their actions was dependent upon the “context” of the action. So apparently if Biden figured out the correct “context” to make it an official act, he could conceivably jail Trump and the Supreme Court Justices and appoint a new Court. Problem solved.
You broke the code, David.
When Democrats have a majority in the House and Senate, and have won the Presidency (pray this happens this November) there has to be a major PUSH to clean up this court by expanding it ASAP. Are there any other fixes to this politicized court? Impeach Thomas?
As much as he needs to be impeached, I don't think we could ever pull it off. But if we set up new ethical guidelines that he had to follow, maybe he wouldn't be able to accept all those bribes anymore. That alone would really help!
I, too, have a long history of respecting the court. I’m still amused when one or more justices who are supposedly Trump judges rule for the law and not for his interests. But I’m also disturbed by the seeming corruption and politicization of the court. What’s worse, they seem completely immune to even reasoned criticism. And why not? Lifetime tenure covers a lot of sins. And completely destroys any “red-face” tests.
There are actually two different Supreme Courts at work.
One addresses legal issues outside of partisan politics and culture wars. It often decides cases unanimously or by wide margins and sometimes across political divides. This Court is more conservative than I would prefer, but it tends to decide cases well within the legal mainstream.
But for political / culture war cases, the Court is a partisan extreme right wing exercise in pure political power. Its only guiding principle is how to ensure a right wing victory. All purported conservative legal philosophies of textualism, originalism, and judicial restraint are jettisoned as needed. Even basic judicial ethics are trampled upon.
THAT Court deserves no respect or presumption of legitimacy. None of its opinions should be considered to have any moral authority or precedential value beyond the time when they lose enough justices to keep. When eventually they lose their majority, those decisions will be tossed into dustbin of ignominy where they belong.
SC should never have taken the case.
Thomas should have recused himself.
9-0 ruling should be against immunity.
I am beyond disgusted. Justice Robert’s court is corrupt and complicit with Trump.
I am so thoroughly disgusted and angry at these un-elected, self righteous men who think they can make decisions “for the ages” without dealing with the actual case at hand! It is time to insist that the court is too narrow and too partisan (not to mention unethical—thank you, Clarence Thomas), and needs to be unpacked. Let’s look at the numbers of circuit courts and amp the numbers on the Supreme Court up to a reasonable degree.
In Gore vrs Bush, Scalia did not completely corrupt the SCOTUS but he laid the cornerstone. Scalia inserted the Court (as himself) into the election beyond any recognized standard legal prescription of called-for process of confirmation, and his remarcks throughout were tinged with a vibrancy of authoritarian aire that was chesty and audacious. Most lawyers at the time I assume were somewhat schocked, but this was the Supreme Court, the top of the legal hill, and lawyers by instinct play things close to the chest while putting their fingers in the air, always reading how the wind blows, placing verity second to vulnerability. From Scalia on, the Highest Court has evolved with increased political insertions and the politicalization now seems complete. Sadly, meaningful remedy is mentioned only in murmurs--more judges, limited terms, etc--the voices that could be raised are as yet only weak and perfunctory. If enough fire were raised, it could become a strong issue in the election. Left as it is, the SCOTUS remains untouchable.
True. Some current justices participated actively in the horrendous demonstrations that shut down the Bush v Gore 2000 vote counting.
If he's freaked out now and grew up under the Rehnquist Court or earlier versions going back to Burger, when things started going south, he'd REALLY be blown away if he had grown up under the Court of Warren & William O. Douglas, Thurgood Marshall...
Rehnquist was a weirdo hack who cut his bonafides in Arizona intimidating Latino voters & ushering in the current era of voter suppression. And now we've got the Ginni Thomas & scAlito Court...
Well, here’s where I sit. The current SCOTUS is bought, and paid for. Full stop. The court must be expanded, term limits need to be implemented, along with an enforceable code of ethics with outside oversight. The self enforced COE isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on with this group. It’s a joke. Any COE must have outside oversight by an ethics committee of some sort. Just my take. 😎
Far right Justices are clearly looking for a way to do minimal damage to Trump. They have made this about future bad actors who might seek to punish their rivals, instead of the current bad actor, Trump, who tried to subvert a lawful election after all legal remedies had failed. They keep avoiding the actual judicial issue in front of them and seem to be trying to legislate from the bench.
And no one has asked Thomas, who is obviously conflicted, to step down.
SCOTUS, looks more and more like a fascist court protecting a fascist candidate. It’s sickening to watch.
If they thought he was innocent of the crimes, they would rule quickly against him and let the trials go forward before the election. They know very well that he's guilty, so they want to pause everything as long as they can.
I agree if he is innocent why delay proving it?
They're working feverishly to design RE judicial and executive powered "for the ages".
Permanent Republican Rule. .
Marveling at the irony of protecting a president from criminal abuse who has already, and on multiple occasions, threatened to do just that to CANDIDATES who would not enjoy any such protections.
The court, formerly so eminent and respected, now oblivious to the present lethal assault on our institutions-judiciary foremost among them-as to dawdle away precious time on some distant wispy abstraction that might be problematic but utterly reliant on our legal wisdom to avoid. “For the ages” may well be our ending.
I am flabbergasted that SCOTUS could both ignore the plain letter of the law in the 14th amendment and yet find cause for immunity that exists nowhere.
If Presidental immunity is found to exist then we have ourselves a monarchy.
It is well past time to expand the court by 4 members. There should be one justice for each circuit court. Biden and Schumer should pull a McConnell, appoint 4 of the most qualified liberal judges and get them approved less than 3 weeks before the election. Then pass a law that the number of justices cannot exceed the number of circuit courts.
I am still in shock. The MAGA movement has caused me to worry about our republic but I now realize the real evil is Mitch McConnell and his packed court. I feel like I am watching the world of "Prophet Song" unfold before my very eyes.
When McConnell blocked Obama from appointing Garland, who is better suited and qualified to sit on the court than any of the 6 right wingers, who are blatantly unfit, the writing was on the wall..
Truth
It is an illegitimate court. Either expand the court, limit terms, have ethics rules that must be adhered to, or ignore them.
I feel like you. The blinders are off. The sense of gravitas blown away. I have no respect for this court. I have no trust they will make decisions that buttress the laws of this country. And then my partner reminded me this isn’t new. People in positions of great power allow themselves to be corrupted. Isn’t that what we’re seeing here?
I realize that with all my remarks and comments I failed to answer the title question of this piece. I’m going to do that now.
“How Broken Is The Supreme Court?”
Very, very broken..
It was quite evident that the fanatical right wing Justices on the Supreme Court were not interested in focusing on the case before them, as is proper..
Instead, they leaned into bizarre hypotheticals, interrupting at seemingly every turn the Lawyer arguing for the Special Council.. In that spirit, I wonder how they would respond to the hypothetical of a Jan 6th Attack incited by a President that landed on their doorstep instead of our Capitol..
These right wing people on the court have gone way beyond their remit with malice and aforethought..They have ignored the basic principles of their responsibility and are manifestly unfit to be trusted in any capacity of jurisprudence..
For that matter, Thomas and Alito must be removed immediately..They have abdicated their oath, responsibility and duty..
It is difficult for me to wrap my head around the fact that there are so many in the legal community looking at them, who are so much better versed in the law, in the Constitution, its history, meaning and proper interpretation than these people..That they would conduct themselves as they have in the face of such scrutiny..
There must be swift action by those who are trying to preserve our Democracy.. There must be an intervention of some kind to stop the deliberate destruction of our Democracy.. There is no credibility or legitimacy with this court..It is a lawless arm of the GOP..I cannot begin to imagine what the thinking is of Jackson, Sotomayor or Kagan.. On the whole, they must be made an offer they can’t refuse..I do not see anything else that would be acceptable..They are literally a domestic enemy..
Trump demands be absolved of his past crimes. He can call anything "official" including his conspiracy to steal the Executive Branch, while yelling Stop the Steal. Which started as a money scam in April, 2016 by Roger Stone. Oldie but a goodie! The irony is lost on Alito and Thomas. The secondary ask is to give cover for his potential future crimes, which are no doubt in the planning stages now. By his creative "no limit" advisors.
In their hypotheticals, the Justices pondered the case of a President (ignore his "motives" says Gorsuch) assassinating a "corrupt opponent". Trump's attorney said, YES that would be covered by the immunity he is asking for. What's shocking is they failed to discuss that a President, under the cover of claimed immunity, could decide that one or more of them is a "corrupt opponent". Alito and Thomas must think they are "immune" from his wrath. However, if they don't notice that Trump a backstabber, they aren't paying attention.
Imagine this scenario. Try to think like Roger Stone and Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller.
1. SCOTUS rules in his favor on immunity for official acts or pushes the case back to Chutkin and the appeal process resets. Giving him what he wants, short term, either way.
2. Trump is elected. On Day One he appoints his lackeys to run the Justice Dept, FBI, CIA, Joint Chiefs and all the positions needed for tight control.
3. Soon after, he signs an Executive Order that reduces the Supreme Court to six Justices. The three non-loyal liberal justices are arrested and accused of "corruption" and treason. His kangaroo court quickly finds them guilty. The penalty is exile to a military facility on Guam. Every judge in the nation takes notice. They could be next.
4. Trump is accused of committing crimes by the Dems and others but he has the cover of "immunity" granted by the previous SCOTUS. Which really doesn't matter now, other than political/meme cover. Who needs immunity if you control the court system?
5. Trump claims the Executive Branch is co-equal with the Judicial Branch. So any objections are deemed moot by the Press and public.
6. Trump has his AG and FBI arrest members of Congress and the Press that loudly oppose him. The loyal members (the 147 Objectors, for example) and the directed "journalists" (Fox/OANN?Newsmax) serve his daily whims.
7. Life goes on in the new America. Which now looks very much like Putin's Russia.
There is a rather large “IF” in play here..Trump has yet to be elected and the court has not yet ruled..In my opinion, what is required now
vis-à-vis the right wing of the court is there must be a clandestine action taken by those who are so positioned to make them an offer they can’t refuse..please don’t mistake these remarks as hyperbolic, I mean every word..We are at war with domestic enemies..That court is but one..
Since impeaching the corrupt justices is pretty much impossible, it's absolutely necessary to expand the court.
And it certainly won't be oversized considering that Germany with 84 million inhabitants has an equivalent of two senates of eight justices each.
As has been suggested by others it is necessary to reconfigure the SCOTUS. After Biden wins reelection he should immediately set about to add members to the court. It has been suggested by others who are more familiar with the Federal court system that there should be 13 members and that lifetime appointments should be terminated. But, I don’t believe Biden would do this as he is at heart a very conventional politician.
The Supreme Court, in my mind, are Right Wing, Hacks. I’m Appalled by the actions of our highest court.,but Not Surprised . We have to work harder this Election Cycle to insure the Rights of Women, access to Voting, and by insuring the Rights of ALL People. So, we have a lot of work to do. Keep our Eye on the Prize, sort of
Speak. And, by all means, Expand the Supreme Court, take it away from the Right-Wing Hacks who control the Court.
It also holds true for state and federal courts. I read that Leonard Leo was responsible for over two hundred judges being assigned to state and federal courts.. that is one of the reasons that Trump lawyers try to court shop
He’s ALSO very corrupt, accepting huge sums from billionaires to corrupt the entire federal judiciary.
They are all doing things like drinking $500 bottles of wine courtesy of Nazi-loving billionaires to throw cases in a way that helps these billionaires, then whinging about how they are piously saving the USA for Jesus (who loves rich people and hates trans people).
I don’t people who are that good at lying to themselves can be stopped by anything like ethics laws. The American public has to do it…somehow. There are a substantial number who are brainlessly voting to breathe toxic air and drink poison water and lose access to social security or education for their children —for Jesus, who again, loves pollution and hates women and children—so I am not very optimistic about the situation.
Leonard Leo has a lust for money and wealth, has nothing to do with God. It’s his fancy lifestyle and all of the status it gives him. Like his reserved space in the fancy wine cellar for his wine that’s more than the cost of a house for a bottle.
To me it is mindboggling that the supreme court actually exists of republican as democratic members; it should be without any bonds to a party, and let the judges see with every trial what the best way is to decide over it. Isn't Justice the woman with the blindfold on? Isn't it insane to have either a republican or democratic judge rule over any case? Judges should be without party; they are above it
The Supreme Court has been stacked by Trump.
Clarence has been misguided by his wife who is herself has harmed American Citizens. Donald will not be President. All the darkness is coming to light.
The Supreme Court members who are voting to let Donald off the hook are Obstructing Justice. Yes, a first as I see it.
If the Highest Court in the land is broken then it needs to be fixed. Remove the one's who choose not to follow the Constitution or the Laws of this country.
We The People can not sit back and say nothing.
A complete lack of respect
It’s shattered.
The only way to correct this court is for Trump to lose - badly - in November and the Congress and Senate to gain enough members to expand the SCOTUS AND HAVE THE BACKBONE TO DO IT. Democrats still hold out hope that the Golden Rule applies, that the playing field is even, that all rules are followed equally AND THEY ARE NOT. We have wasted decades with this mindset while the Mitch McConnells and the Bill Barrs of our world stripped away all pretense of neutrality regarding the POTUS and all of our courts. The SCOTUS is made up of 5 politicians, three who are unqualified to even sit on that bench given their inexperience, past misdeeds and their inability to separate their church from our state.
The Republican clown show has now permeated the Supreme Court. Thomas’ conflict of interest has once again reared its ugly head with the chief justice giving him a pass without even the hint of recusal. Gorsuch is sitting thanks only to McConnell telling President Obama that he couldn’t appoint a Supreme Court judge in the last year of the president’s tenure. As to Thomas, too bad the Justice Department didn’t do a thorough review of his wife’s involvement in Trump’s shadowy connections; there might have been enough cause to tie her behavior to Thomas himself.