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Don Buckter's avatar

The war will end when Israel declares it has ended. Anyone reading that and thinking I’m anti-Israel is wrong. Quite the opposite is true. A lot of good folks here and in Israel know where I’m coming from. This “excursion” is a man made mess. Ain’t no Messiah coming to bail us out.

Sharon C Storm's avatar

I agree with you. I’m pro the people of Israel, but anti Netanyahu. Exactly as I’m pro U S citizens, but anti felon in the White House. Both “leaders” belong in prison, not the respective governments where they reside.

Lauren's avatar

Sharon, agree. And it goes on and on for other countries.

Don Buckter's avatar

Hi Sharon. We have a lot of work to do on every front. We’ve fallen terribly behind in this social contract experiment we call liberal democracy. That Steven has asked us to ask ourselves, “How long are we going to elect sociopaths?” - (which I interpret to mean here and elsewhere) - is a tell on just how much progress and good will has already been squandered. I’m typing this as I am about to join my local (weekly) anti-Trump(ism) protest. We don’t have to wait for the next No Kings! Fomenting nihilism is the sociopathic leader’s Ace card. RESIST! …. https://indivisible.org/

Sharon C Storm's avatar

I attend a weekly protest also. I plan to be at a much larger protest on No Kings 3.0. I would not be surprised if we doubled the last one, which was estimated at 6 million people. If we do get to 12 million we will be at the 3.5% of the population that it takes to effect change. I know that isn’t a hard and fast rule, but it is a guideline to help us understand the importance of the numbers.

Bill Riley's avatar

No Kings 2 actually and I believe officially brought out 7 million (not 6 million) of us.

Don Buckter's avatar

Sharon, All very fine. Momentum is gathering. Disapproval is rising. That 3.5% is a worthy goal which I’m hopeful we will reach and exceed in time. The energy, strategy and organizational skills of INDIVISABLE give me hope. All best to you and yours (which is “us” when you stop and think about it!) Don … Here’s a convo between Princeton History Prof. Julian Zelizer and Indivisable’s Ezra Levin I think you might enjoy and want to share. … https://julianzelizer.substack.com/p/whats-next-with-no-kings-a-conversation?r=3codzl&utm_medium=ios

Sharon C Storm's avatar

Thanks for the correction, the last I heard was 6 million, but 7 million is exciting.

PowerCorrupts's avatar

let’s collaborate

PowerCorrupts's avatar

Feb 22, 5:06 PM

to me

Mark Giorgini liked your comment on Can the Supreme Court Stop the Monster They Unleashed?.

All governors should pass ballot initiatives that take the $175 billion dollars to be refunded from tariffs to give to the victims that were cut out of food assistance with a caveat that they join a class action suit against County tax assessors that granted tax free status to Christian nationalist organizations ... Forcing Christian nationalist organizations to quickly go broke

Chris Rewey's avatar

We’re in the bomb dropping phase of a war that began long before the noise and the murder of school children. The bomb phase will likely end once we return to the gas lines of the early ‘70’s and middle America is paying $7 a gallon. But then the original war will again commence, fueled by even greater enmity than before. Trump will be remembered as Netanyahu’s bitch, and we’ll all get to think harder about crafting a civilization no longer reliant on the dinosaurs.

Steven Beschloss's avatar

Yes, one can hope it will renew recognition that reliance on fossil fuel is the past not the future. As for gas lines and the '70s...Trump has never moved beyond that era.

Lauren's avatar

Steven, he's not capable of it. As his Dementia gets worse, his cruelty gets worse...because he wants to control as much as he can, since he's lost control over his body and brain.

It's worth noting that drilling for oil only makes the war on migration even worse, and how all of that is healthcare/basic mental health. But at the same time? Some of the greener forms of energy aren't as green as people think. Drilling for rare minerals, using child labor, isn't the solution. I'm not sure what it is. If we could turn corruption into energy, we'd have a never-ending source of clean energy...in DC and Chicago.

Ann Sharon's avatar

Israel is very dependent on oil — from regions that don’t need the Straits of Hormuz.

Barbara Bennett's avatar

I’m hoping that the upcoming No Kings protest will be the largest ever, and will focus on this absurd and deadly war, “non-war,” “little excursion,” total disaster. And btw I weep for the Iranian people, who have suffered so much and are now seeing their homeland destroyed.

I fear that, if we actually put boots on the ground, we’ll end up with another Iraq or Afghanistan. My hope is that Trump’s “friends” in the Middle East will deter him. This is Netanyahu’s (another dangerous criminal) war. Not ours. Pray, work, and fight for peace!

Nancy Stone's avatar

Boots on the ground in Iran is foolish. Iran is surrounded by mountains so how will troops quickly and quietly get into the country? But everything Trump does is foolish.

Bill Riley's avatar

Bibi led Trump by the nose into this war.

Sam's avatar
Mar 14Edited

When he feels it in his depends.

Richard Brody's avatar

Which are already so full of s...t!

Sam's avatar

Well, I don't think he shares anything, with anyone... so...

Lauren's avatar

When orange, netanyahu, putin, etc. are dead from poor cholesterol?

Al Bellenchia's avatar

When we the people end this reign.

AVee. (Alexia)'s avatar

Or

As he says, when

He feels it in his bones😵‍💫

Al Bellenchia's avatar

Those bones are diseased.

AVee. (Alexia)'s avatar

‼️yes, Al

I keep looking at my calendar… thinking… today would be a good day.

I mean he’s winding down but his energy levels are so inconsistent- I keep thinking… what the heck are they pumping into that bruised now gigantically gorged right hand: nitro?

For pure curiosity I’d like to know the combination of drugs in that cocktail.

(Not for personal use… just purely for perusal ☺️)

Al Bellenchia's avatar

You think they’d tell? Hell no.

AVee. (Alexia)'s avatar

It could be leaked.

Let’s concentrate

Leigh Horne's avatar

Given that during a speech this week Trump repeatedly referred to Caroline Leavitt as Kellyanne Conway, and then addressed her by that name, how long can Trump's cabinet put off calling for a fully disclosed medical assessment of his physical and neurological status as a prelude to invoking the 25th amendment. And, why aren't more member of congress urging them to do so?

Ann Sharon's avatar

The process does not require and there is nothing to make him comply with a “fully disclosed medical …” etc. The Cabinet serves at his pleasure. He chose them.

The process for the using 25th Amendment to remove him is not a magic wand. It is longer & more difficult than impeachment. The VP and a majority of the Cabinet don’t get the final say. He can send a letter to Congress denying the inability to do his job. That restores his authority as president.

Then the Congress must be in session within 48 hours to decide. It takes a 2/3 majority in BOTH the House & Senate within 21 days to remove him.

(Impeachment needs neither the VP /Cabinet nor 2/3 in the House - only a majority to bring impeachment charges. But 2/3 in the Senate to convict.)

Let’s pretend he chose a VP and some members of his Cabinet who contemplate this. Do you think they would worry about what happens to them if it failed in Congress??? I’m thinking in T1, their fate if they removed him was real reason Pence refused.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/pence-tells-pelosi-he-wont-invoke-the-25th-amendment

Leigh Horne's avatar

Thanks for the deets. Think we'll be focusing on impeachment, then.

Ann Sharon's avatar

Yes, I think that is a more accessible path. There is one caveat. It is possible but very unlikely the Dems can hold all their seats & flip enough Senate seats to get a 2/3 majority. That would mean GOP votes will be necessary to convict. Maybe the Dems take the Senate majority again & this administration is so far off the rails enough GOP would want an end to the crazy. Will fear of DJT be a campaign issue that boosts GOP voter turnout? Either way, I don’t believe ‘we hate him’ or ‘he’s crazy’ campaign would help.

His 2nd impeachment came the closest bc it had the most ever members of a party who voted to impeach a president of their own party. IOW, winning over GOP Senators would be needed - maybe states being hit hard by the WH policies &/or that GOP had trouble winning.

The 7 GOP Senators Who Voted to Convict (2021):

Richard Burr (NC) - Left (2023)

Bill Cassidy (LA) - Still in Senate, not running for re-election

Susan Collins (ME) - Still in Senate, running

Lisa Murkowski (AK) - Still in Senate,

Mitt Romney (UT) - Left (2025)

Ben Sasse (NE) - Left (2023)

Pat Toomey (PA) - Left (2023)

Leigh Horne's avatar

Sounds strategic! Looking into the future, we'd do well to elect Democrats in every election we can, from school boards to the Executive used to be mansion and is fast becoming an eyesore. We just elected a local rep in my district, and our congressman, Christ DeLuzio is running well ahead of the Reblublican. If John Fetterman refuses to resign or runs as an Independent next time he is not likely to retain his seat. Roy Cooper is looking good in NC, and Sherrod Brown is neck in neck in Ohio. Fingers crossed the Dems can find someone electable to run against Collins in Maine.

Ann Sharon's avatar

Platner has stayed consistently a few points ahead of Mills. June is a ways away so we’ll see.

Bill Riley's avatar

All but four of our 100 US Senators take money from AIPAC and the rest of the Israel lobby (the four who don’t are Chris Van Hollen, MD; Jeff Merkley, OR; and Bernie Sanders and Peter Welch, both of them from VT). And out of the 435 House members, only 17 don’t take money from the Israel lobby

Patricia Lane's avatar

Trump and Hegseth are not reality based.

They are also the ‘dumb and dumber’ versions of people like Lindsey Graham who are like little boys “ playing war” .

They are elated that this mindless, senseless episode of death and destruction continues.

What is wrong here is none of them have the moral compass to see that purposeful death and destruction of people is evil. Not a game that someone wins .

My hope for them to come to reality is moot.

They refuse to see anything that upsets their belief that this shows how powerful they are.

Trump has systematically destroyed our economy with his pet projects.

Tariffs and war and he’s scammed money for himself throughout his time in office.

These are our ? Leaders? Pitiful and so damn dangerous.

M Hanni's avatar

I agree that this is Israel’s war. Trump taking his cues from Bibi. Both corrupt criminals, but Bibi doesn’t have dementia, but rather a fervent desire to decimate Iran beyond rebuilding and screw the consequences. Trump is so out of his depth, and has only know-nothing bozos advising him, that I doubt he has any grasp at all of what he has unleashed- certainly he has no goal that is identifiable, because he had to wait for Bibi to tell him. Trump’s actions are also benefiting Putin, like everything else he’s done. And remarkably, it very likely all comes down to Epstein.

Linda Branham's avatar

I think that even when (and if) the "war" ends, that Iran will continue a different type of war . One that involves smaller attacks by individuals and hidden groups.

I think ending this war will be like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

But then, I am definitely not a war person - or a military person. I am just an old lady who has watched things unfold during my lifetime.

Ann Sharon's avatar

Oh, you mean you have common sense, powers of observation & reason. Sounds good to me!

Montana Channing's avatar

Your so'called surgical strike in Venezuela still destroyed civilian property and we have no idea how many Venezuelans were injured or killed.

DonOLD needs to be permanently removed by any means.

Lauren's avatar

It's past time for the Baker Act. Can they use that and keep him for a few months while impeaching?

Dawn Kucera's avatar

I think the war will end when Iran runs out of ammo. They are going to inflict pain as long as they can.

Judith Newman 🇨🇦's avatar

They have more than ammo, they have the blockade of the Straits of Hormuz. If that goes on much longer than 2 weeks, the food crisis come late summer and fall is going to have Americans howling! More than the gas, it's the fertilizer that's the big card Iran holds!

Michael's avatar

We should also factor into this equation the chips made in Taiwan. Lack of LNG will greatly diminish their chip production - so vital to our economy and the rest of the world. LNG is transported from the S of H, as is our precious fertilizer and the ingredients for all that plastic for our foods and other items. This situation entails much more than oil. Many of the expert planners for these situations were fired or quit from DOGE cuts and other insults about the deep state. Now what? Sounds like the only bargaining chip here is to silence the media and critics.

Judith Newman 🇨🇦's avatar

Silence the media critics? And how's that going? People who want to know are finding independent journalists.

Dawn Kucera's avatar

Yes, exactly. There’s more than one kind of ammo, and geography did Iran a favor, by giving them the S of H. I’ve seen a line somewhere that they are thinking about talks on opening the S of H, but why would they?

I see Iran as a wounded animal - they are enraged, and I think they will inflict as much pain as they can - they don’t care who is hurt. If the US tries to take the Strait (ground troops), Iran will inflict a terrible price.

Judith Newman 🇨🇦's avatar

Absolutely agree. BTW Iranian oil is flowing through the Sof H - to China! Gotta love that!

Lauren's avatar

They need a cultural revolution. Their new government is only going to make things worse.

Dawn Kucera's avatar

I agree. And I think that’s what the Trump administration was hoping in their best case scenario. However, starting the war seems to have had the opposite effect – – making the people rally around their leaders.

You never plan a war expecting the best case scenario will happen. Oops.

KO in LA's avatar

Not sure protests will move Trump- he’ll care only if he thinks he’s starting to lose his base & that hasn’t happened yet. Elections? He’s pulling out all the stops to disenfranchise Democrats, stock state election boards with election deniers & if all else fails, he stands ready to declare a state of insurrection and invoke martial law. In my view, short of actual civil war, the only thing that could save us is a Congress that asserts its power and says no. And there is about a zero percent chance of that happening. There is one other potential out - if he f***s up the economy so badly that his billionaire puppet masters pull the plug on him.

Doesn’t mean we don’t keep resisting and protesting-we must do that. But the real movement will come if either the MAGA faithful or the billionaires decide they’ve had enough.

Ann Sharon's avatar

We don’t need the faithful. We need the others who voted for him. The ones who are driving down his poll numbers. The voters who are voting blue & enabled the Dems to flip a couple dozen state legislative seats since he was elected. The GOP has flipped exactly Zero.

Larry Rosen's avatar

The war will end when the costs to Trump exceed the benefits. Increases in the price of gas and groceries are not a consideration. Prolonging the war distracts the public from the Epstein files and the tanking economy. Ultimately pressure from the gulf states who have showered money on Trump and his family may be the decisive factor.

Ruth Burnham's avatar

One thing that concerns me is that Iranians, and maybe others (see Islamic sectarian violence and how old it is) have long memories. Iran has declared the school children martyrs, and said that even one of them deserved revenge, and there were 170. Individuals and small groups are likely to cause the kind of violence we saw against the Michigan synagogue for a very long time.

Ann Sharon's avatar

True. However, it could be worse than that. The Michigan incident was perpetrated by a Lebanese naturalized (2016) US citizen who had family members in Lebanon. “The strike killed two of Ghazali’s brothers and a niece and nephew, according to a flyer …” from the memorial service.

The Imam at the mosque met Ghazali during the memorial service. He told the (Detroit) Free Press Israel’s attacks don’t give people a “blank check” to attack synagogues and civilians.

“I strongly condemn the attack against Temple Israel," Qazwini told the Free Press. "Houses of worship have their sanctity and should be spared from political violence. Islam forbids holding innocent people accountable for acts done by others. The unjustified Israeli attack on civilians in Iran and Lebanon gives no blank check to anyone attacking synagogues, civilians and peaceful communities.”

Kelvin Hobbs's avatar

Simple Man (1973) by Lynyrd Skynyrd

"Come sit beside me, my only son

And listen closely to what I say

Oh, take your time, don't live too fast

Troubles will come and they will pass

You'll find a woman, yeah, and you'll find love

And don't forget, son, there is someone up above

Forget your lust for the rich man's gold

All that you need is in your soul

Oh, be something you love and understand

Boy, don't you worry, you'll find yourself

Follow your heart and nothing else

All that I want for you, my son, is to be satisfied

And be a simple kind of man

===

Some perspective to help keep your eyes on the prize

Jay Jay Eh's avatar

And what’s more, my son - you’ll be a (real) man!

Jay Jay Eh's avatar

Kipling! Yes, Ah-ha! ‘When men were men!’

Reminds me also of Archie Bunker & All In The Family! (a different ‘A-ha’! there).

😅

Tim Prentiss's avatar

"Despotic simpleton" is good, Steven. I've used rapacious felon. We all know who we're talking about. The war will end when he has the Iranian oil fields and all of the moneeee! Or until Putin says it's over. Or Bibi.

I'm not one for takin' it to the streets anymore. At my age I need a bio-break every hour or so. So I opt for a personal revolution instead.