The felon's followers are fine with children being forcibly separated from their parents by masked ICE thugs.
They are fine with tens of thousands of children dying from starvation and and lack of medical care after the dismantling of USAID.
They are fine with their own children being at risk from preventable diseases because they won't vaccinate them.
They are fine with children not having school lunches or health insurance.
They are fine with children being at risk of being shot at school and in other public places.
What Epstein and others did is reprehensible, yes, but how could the felon's supporters have completely disregarded all these other harmful, devastating acts perpetrated against children?
This potential 'last straw' for the felon was a hell of a long time in coming.
I don't think the "last straw" has actually come yet. Sure, some of his MAGA conspiracy acolytes will fall by the wayside. But the question really is how will the majority of his fans react? Most of them have been living for a long time with the cognitive dissonance wrought by their knowledge of his depravity and their "support" of him. This particular case is no revelation. They've known all along he's entangled up to his eyeballs with Epstein. I suspect the only thing that will deter them from continued "support" is boredom. This reality-TV based world has a limited shelf life.
More like a brick on top of other discontent by other factions. The podcasters & influencers know DJT has a specific expiration date, 2027 and want to $urvive. The ones he relies on to amplify him in that world. A symbiotic relationship.
What we think they believe, know or should is not relevant. We are seldom exposed to the same opinions / “news” they are. This is based on child sex trafficking but is largely about the power of elites & trump being caught breaking a major promise to a single issue fervent slice of maga (about 10%). Then insulting them for being angry — as pointed out by their trusted “sources.” Acting as an “elite”. Alex Jones 😊 said on his show to DJT: You ain’t the pope & you can’t excommunicate people.
In DJT’s first term he chose federal prosecutor, Alex Acosta, for Labor Sec. The guy who waived federal charges related to child sex trafficking against Epstein in 2008 and let Epstein plead it down to 1 state charge 2 counts. His appointment generated a big outcry. Dems were furious as were others. In 2019 Acosta resigned despite DJT’s support; Epstein was charged by SDNY & died in prison — all this happened within about a month while DJT was president and running for a 2nd term. He needed to change the narrative. He amplified & redirected growing conspiracy theories through the mouthpieces who made big $$ off conspiracies.
A whole new crop of podcaster popped up during Covid making tons of $$. He lost the election blamed the cabal. This Q branch of maga was at Jan6. He ran again, won and it seemed like he was going to keep his promise. A simple promise to open the files & the client list. The podcasters hyped it. A group of them went to a Bondi photo op event & received binders “Volume 1”. They were played for fools. There was almost nothing new except a list of evidence. They had some ‘splaining to do for the listeners.
Bondi pivoted blamed the FBI and ordered Kash Patel to deliver the entire file to her & “conduct and investigation” of why she received partial info. She said on Faux News while being asked about the client list, “It’s on my desk.” When the 2 page memo came out the thing really blew up. It may diminish. Bondi may get the blame. But conspiracy theories do not die & the world of maga podcasters & influencers was powerful enough to put Bongino and Kash Patel in the jobs they hold now.
Your point is well taken, as the latest scandal sucks the oxygen out of the room, our Democracy is nearly gone. What ever brings him down can't be fast enough for architects and players of Project 2025 that are embedded and controlling "their new government". Trump was the tool and useful idiot they no longer need. With Steven Miller leading way as the new chief of staff, and their young VP with the picture perfect family stepping up and putting the country back together in their undemocratic image. He will become their new hero. Just thinking while it's still legal, stay tuned.
I disagree that Epstein is a diversion. It triggered the strongest “yelp” from Trump we’ve seen in months.
The objective of this fight is to right all the wrongs M. Franklin listed.
But as a point of attack, we have made no headway in separating his base from him by going after his base for being wrong.
Frontal attacks on his base have been unsuccessful since before Trump thought of running the first time. If you have Trumpies in your family tree, then you know, you cannot shake them out. They cling to the roots that feed them.
But when they feel the sting of Epstein and realize they’ve been fed crap, they will let go and act with the “sense God gave a little green apple,” the sense to blush in season.
Yup. All true. Let’s consider how information travels to them. It is not through us or media we consume. When Bondi did the big photo op for a few select maga podcasters & influencers they hyped it in anticipation of big things promised being delivered. Then they had to explain to their audiences why there was almost NOTHING new to tell them. If we just substitute a source we trust for theirs and think about hearing this about an administration we trusted … Then it happened a 2nd time with the memo saying ‘no client list’.
Conspiracy theories do not die. They’ve waited years, since the 1st Epstein case, 2008. Who did DJT choose in his 1st term to be Sec of Labor? The federal prosecutor who undercut the victims by signing a rotten deal agreeing not to charge & to a slap on the wrist by the state of FL. The Dems and general outrage eventually forced him to resign - in the same time period SDNY found a way to charge Epstein, he was in prison & died before a trial.
Donnie needed to turn the tide on this story as he ran for a 2nd term. He fed the conspiracies & aimed them at the Dems. During covid a lot of people fell down the rabbit hole into “saving the children” conspiracies. They turned to non-traditional media. Even if he loses ‘only’ 10% of his base as Bannon fears over this, it is a big problem.
Plus, in flailing & failing mode DJT has attacked the people he relied on. Listeners are hearing what he’s really saying. The “flawed vessel” “chosen” to right these wrongs has attacked them & said to forget about it. Forget? After 17 yrs. 🙃 They got a glimpse of him turning on them as a powerful elite. Some of their other grievances are also bubbling up. Also in play, the voices making $$ on this know Donnie doesn’t have long before he becomes irrelevant. They can’t afford to lose their audiences. But they’d rather not annoy him.
I've been pondering the Greek level tragedy of Trump's insistence on branding in light of his signature on the image described in the Wall St. Journal article.
He’s known for saying other people does stuff he’s doing. Also for when he very specifically denies things it usually means he did them. I understand his lawsuit says that:
A. He was never a friend of Epstein — I can understand that ‘friend’ can be hard to prove.
B. He doesn’t draw etc. — This is too easy to prove a lie.
There are plenty of photos and other things refute A including Michale Wolff’s reporting with about 100 hours of audio of Epstein talking about their friendship of 10 yrs. Right down to details of how they would prowl for women together.
Regarding B doodle drawings are popping up with his signature. Here is one as verified by the person who requested it for charity auction. (Maybe he’ll say he just signed them 🤡)
Others: a tree with dollar bills falling off of it, signed “Donald Trump,” with a gold sharpie sold for $8,500, drawing of the Empire State building sold for $16,000 at Julien’s Auctions in Los Angeles in 2017, a minimalist sketch of the New York City skyline with a gold marker signature sold for $29,184, 2017
One of the drawings that was auctioned in 2004 has subsequently been donated back to another charity and will be up for auction in September. The winning bidder will receive what Lockard describes as the signed letter of authentication from Trump.
“This should raise a pretty penny,” said Lockard, who is planning on starting the bidding at $10,000. “It’s a great doodle.”
It’s amazing that people like Nick Fuentes are publicly dumping him! But even if he is moved aside by Congress (still doubtful at this point). Project 2025 will live on through all the appointments he has made. Holding onto hope for 2026 - that is assuming we can have free and fair elections!
The men on Epstein’s list, the ones other than Trump, will still be on the list.
It isn't just Trump who wants the list suppressed. It is the wealthy movers and shakers in the Empire State and environs who are afraid of being exposed. That is cause for hope; the vulnerability won’t go away after Trump succumbs to swollen joints and sclerosis of the blowhole.
I respectfully submit, T&Company are in this fight because of sex, money, bribery, blackmail, and extortion. His base are in it because they believe T&Company’s propaganda and are focused on getting rid of these evils, which is the message of that propaganda.
That’s true. In this situation the trouble began when DJT and Bondi said they were delivering on his promise. The handpicked collection of influencers & podcasters hyped the event; posed in the photo op; opened their binders only to find there was almost nothing new to feed their waiting audiences.
Bondi pivoted (Feb 27th) and ordered Kash Patel to give her the rest of the file and investigate why she didn’t receive all the info the 1st time.
Round 2 was worse. The big “new information”: No client list exists.
Then the whole thing started going sideways cheered on by Elon when the EV tax credit was wiped out with more old news. (That trump is in the file.)
They’ve had some trouble explaining why they aren’t delivering to their audiences and pivoting back to DJT is the good guy. They’ll never trust Bondi.
1) When the Nazis turn on you, that’s bad news for Trump. Half the Jan 6 insurrectionists are Nazis and they love Nick Fuentes. 2) I worry that the 1000 FBI agents who have been tasked to comb through the rooms full of Epstein documents, 24/7 to redact every mention of Trump, will make accountability nearly impossible. Ham-handed, yes, but who knows, maybe a disheartened FBI agent will blow the whistle? 3) Yes I worry what Trump will do if he is actually outed (I’ve no doubt he participated in the rapes. What was he doing on the island so many times? Getting a sun tan? 4) My biggest worry is that he’ll start nuking some country when he’s finally cornered and bereft of cultists, not to mention 79% of Americans. He is pathological, and can’t bear the truth: he’s a loser.
Sen. Ron Wyden of the Senate finance committee has some financial info from documents gathered under the Biden administration. He knows there are more but is being stymied by this administration. This is what he said on the floor of the Senate:
Grand jury records are not complete, are under court purview, and are seldom released with names. And “pertinent” is the big out for Trump and Bondi. Actually DOJ investigation records are the files that need to be released. He tricked you!
In FLORIDA, wasn't it just a plea deal that allowed him out of jail to conduct 'business'?
In NEW YORK, Epstein was quickly DEAD - which makes one wonder WHY.
CRAIG UNGER investigated, researched & wrote extensively - available from your public library if you still have one.
MAXWELL earned his $$$ from publishing, but was connected to international intelligence organizations & met with an untimely death.
Recently posted was a comment by a DEMOCRAT that he has been following the $$$ for years - I can't quickly locate his name, but the only EVIDENCE that matters is the MONEY! Who paid EPSTEIN?
A COMMENT POSTED:
ANY ADULT having sex with a minor should be in prison; no matter who it is!
We got rid of Nixon for much less..... Why are we not removing this thing from office....NOW
These were not women. They were CHILDREN.
There is no excuse for not prosecuting crimes against children.
That victim was 13 at the time.
She was a girl at the time
Both were 13 yrs old
Don’t say “ woman”
She was a girl
i’ll bet $100 at least one of our supreme court judges are on that list.
My granddaughter is 13 and I can't imagine her having to go through this at the hands of these predators 🤬 And please let's not call the victims women, they were children.
Get this predator out of office
For the record - teenage girls are not democrats or republicans - they are minors….. and they were victims, and not a hoax.
I don't understand how anyone, male, female, mother, father,Dem, Rep, rich , poor , can cover up for a paedofile. In what world is it acceptable?
In her testimony she quotes Trump as saying he wants her because she looks like his daughter. Such a gross human being.
At that time, this young CHILD received so much HATE MAIL that she withdrew - who can blame her? LITTLE KID!
JEFFREY EPSTEIN operated a sick & perverted enterprise for which the WEALTHY ENTITLED PERVERTS benefitted!
This goes beyond PERVERSION & involves NATIONAL SECURITY!
JPMORGAN CHASE knew what EPSTEIN was doing & failed to report it, just as they did with BERNIE MADOFF & covered it up.
Excerpt from CRAIG UNGER's book indicates PUTIN has EPSTEIN's VIDEOS....
American Kompromat: How the KGB Cultivated Donald Trump, and Related Tales of Sex, Greed, Power, and Treachery
READ Craig Unger's book(s) available from your public library:
excerpt:
• How the Epstein-Ghislaine Maxwell sex-trafficking operation provided a source and marketplace for sexual kompromat.
• How the Epstein-Maxwell ring helped enable young women with possible ties to Russian intelligence to gain access to the highest levels of Silicon Valley and the worlds of artificial intelligence, supercomputers, and the internet. This, at a time when Vladimir Putin has asserted, “Whoever becomes the leader in this sphere [artificial intelligence] will become the ruler of the world.”
American Kompromat: How the KGB Cultivated Donald Trump, and Related Tales of Sex, Greed, Power, and Treachery Hardcover – January 26, 2021 by Craig Unger (Author)
RUSSIA HAS THE VIDEOS!
• How John Mark Dougan, a former deputy sheriff in Mar-a-Lago’s Palm Beach County, says he acquired 478 videos confiscated from the Jeffrey Epstein investigation, fled to Moscow, became only the fourth American to win asylum in Russia, and immediately gained access to Putin’s inner circle, showing the ongoing power that comes from kompromat and how its value is highest before it is “used.”
FLIGHTS have been documented:
Jeffrey Epstein’s island: What really happened there?
Accusers say billionaire’s private paradise of Little St James in U.S. Virgin Islands was centre of international sex trafficking ring
TRUMP was bailed out financially by RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS who paid inflated prices for his real estate because he was such a poor businessman that he bankrupted CASINOS.
FOLLOW THE EPSTEIN MONEY! That will reveal part of EPSTEIN's scheme. CRAIG UNGER investigated & wrote extensively about MAXWELL's INTELLIGENCE CONNECTIONS & his untimely death. There's more that we need to know about EPSTEIN's $$$ !
I think the comments on the financial trail you are referencing belong to Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon. There is reporting on it. This is what he said on the Senate floor:
I don’t know if there was a Federal Grand jury in FL. It was a very weird situation.
“In 2008, Epstein cut a deal with South Florida federal prosecutors that allowed him to escape more severe federal charges and instead plead guilty to state charges of procuring a person under 18 for prostitution and solicitation of prostitution. He was sentenced to 1.5 years in the Palm Beach County jail system, during which he was allowed to go to his office almost daily as part of a work-release program, followed by a year of house arrest. He was required to register as a sex offender.”
WE know what the CATHOLIC CHURCH did to VICTIMS of SEXUAL ABUSE, their HEALING lasts a lifetime even though they had families & remained silent.
EPSTEIN's INTERNATIONAL CHILD SEX TRAFFICKING RING included CHILDREN with no support, no family connections. ABANDONED CHILDREN who were SEXUALLY ABUSED by WEALTHY PERVERTS.
From the testimony of VICTIMS, we know that these CHILDREN were sexually assaulted SEVERAL TIMES A DAY by WEALTHY PERVERTS who paid EPSTEIN for the privilege.
Does it matter that they were HIGH RANKING PERVERTS?
Does it matter that they were WEALTHY PERVERTS?
How morally depraved must you be to SEXUALLY ABUSE A CHILD?
IT'S OVERDUE FOR MAGA & TRUMPERS to question loyalty over outright perversion.
SEX WITH A 13 YEAR OLD?
KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS!
WHO FUNDED EPSTEIN'S INTERNATIONAL CHILD SEX TRAFFICKING RING?
JPMORGAN CHASE & JAMIE DIMON KNEW....& they covered it up!
As I read what you’ve given us, I believe I agree with you; I also admire the comprehensive list of those who may be on The List.
Respectfully, many MAGA heads agree with you about sex crimes. But they want the conspiracy that is promised to them by The Epstein List to be revealed because prominent Democrats and Coastal Elites are no doubt on the list…
All attacks on Trump for his conduct failed to get their attention, because they could write it off as another attack on their God, their source of nourishment.
But the conspiracy they seek is run by Dems, Coastals, and those always elusive Deep State Operatives. Who knows what’s true, until we see the List?
If some Dems and NY Bigwigs get hurt in this, it will be worth their reputations to get at Trump and Company - the men he controls through bribery, extortion, or shared “tastes” in girls.
And in that, MAGA heads must decide, are they in or out? I respectfully suggest it is in our interest to make them decide. That is, to split them.
There are also other records they deny exist. Under the Biden administration staff for Senate Finance Committee gathered some of it. They were allowed to review at Treasury.
Sen. Marsha Blackburn of TN is a trump and Bondi fan to the core has been on this for yrs and shut down at every turn. She too is calling for the financial records to be released.
Gandhi’s story of non violence in the face of India’s struggle against British Imperialism can show us what’s to be done. We sure could use an American “Gandhi” to lead the way.
The Access Hollywood tapes and other evidence that showed the depth of his depravity brought us hope. None of it mattered. I fear the same thing will happen herr. We see what a disgusting person he is, but will it matter? I think he will find a way to lie his way out of this. I'm sure he could find someone to help him alter the records. The people around him are as depraved as he is and will do what it takes to keep him and themselves in power.
The time was not yet come. Plus, no political leaders hammered on “access hellywood.” They were all above using “reality TV” claims as a point of attack. The source lacked the required “ethical” credentials. They took the high road. Even Ms. Harris took the high road. Where did it get us?
Now’s the time to hammer on Epstein’s depravity and the relationship to Trump and the others on the List.
Pam Bundy or Bondy or whatever her name is, has some ethos as AG. She said it was on her desk…a tactical error on the part of T&Company. Even Pam Bondo's Attorney General’s ethos is better than access hellywood’s.
Are you kidding me? Number 1=it’s a cult. Number 2=Teflon TACO has never suffered the consequences for any of his evil deeds from the time he was born. Number 3=As proven by our past election most Americans are selfish, lazy and misinformed. TACO will skate on this.
Likely what is released to the public will be redacted to only show the names of Democrats or the release will be stalled until it stops being a hot topic.
I mean…we can hope for his resignation and removal, but do you really want JD Vance as the next POTUS? Dear G-D… but in the meantime, Trump’s administration is working overtime to change the subject. Exhibit #1…Tulsi Gabbard calling for the prosecution of Barack Obama. The shifting target of these authoritarians is another canary in the coal mine for democracy’s demise. His base would be relieved, I’m sure, to have Obama as the target for their insatiable rage.
MAGA CULT is uninformed, poorly educated BLIND, BRAINWASHED Followers who exclude FACTS & TRUTH!
FOX NEWS = FAKE NEWS LIARS paid $787 MILLION for their ELECTION LIES & these DIM WITS haven't figured out that IT'S ALL LIES! The ELECTION was not rigged & the CULT continues to support ELECTION DENIERS! Just how STUPID can you be?
They promote CONSPIRACY THEORIES even when they're easily disproven or irrational.
WE need to understand in order to DEFEAT!
JOHN DEAN wrote the article below in 2017 that still resonates....
excerpt:
Authoritarians do remain a minority, but with non-voters and anti-Hillary Clinton voters, Trump pulled off a historic upset. It appears his core supporters remain faithful—regardless of what he does or doesn’t do. So, I asked Bob Altemeyer, what if anything would get through to the Trump supporters, given the fact Trump has shown himself, so far, totally incompetent as President of the United States. Set forth below in italics is material from Bob, who is now enjoying his retirement.
It took many months for Americans to stop supporting President Nixon during Watergate, and even at the end he could count on a hard knot of supporters who would believe him, as he said to [his chief of staff] H. R. Haldeman, because they wanted to. (NYT, 11/22/1974, p. 20). A few days before he resigned, 24% of a Gallup sample approved of the way Nixon was doing his job, including 38% of the Republicans polled.
Most of Donald Trump’s supporters are probably people whom social psychologists call authoritarian followers, because they are so supportive of the authorities they consider legitimate. These are the people Trump was talking about when he famously bragged that he could shoot somebody in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue and it would make no difference to his backers. They are the people who so willingly took the “loyalty pledge” at Trump rallies in the early primaries—even calling on Trump to “do the swearing” when he had skipped it.
We know enough about authoritarian supporters from research, and history, to know it will be very hard to change their minds about the leader they adore.
They are extremely ethnocentric, dividing the world sharply into people in their in-group, and automatically disliking all others. They feel politicians who promote minority rights and immigration discriminate against them. Donald Trump tells them they are right. He is their champion.
They are highly dogmatic. They get their ideas from others in the in-group, especially from their leader, not from evidence and logic. They say there is no evidence that will make them change their minds. They’re quite comfortable believing “alternate facts.”
They get great satisfaction from being part of a large movement. Being in a cohesive crowd at rallies thrills them because they silently tell one another, just by being there, that they are powerful and right. They create an echo chamber that reinforces the belief that all the good people think like they do.
They severely limit their sources of information. They get the news that they want to get. This also produces an echo chamber when the news sources they trust are copying each other and relaying Trump’s message.
They have highly compartmentalized minds. When an unpleasant truth forces its way into their awareness, they do not try to integrate the other things they believe with it. Instead they put it in a box and isolate it from the rest of their thinking, which proceeds as if the truth never existed.
Put all this together and you get an idea how hard it will be to change their minds about Donald Trump.
One can expect some of Trump’s followers to waver if the months ahead are thick with damaging revelations like those that brought down the Nixon White House. But a repeat of “Watergate-type scandals” may not damage Trump as much as they did Nixon.
Tulsi can call for anything. DOJ did not comment on the docs she claimed to turn over to them re: Obama’s administration. FBI is investigating Comey and Brennan. She’s called for them to be charged also. I doubt adding Obama will make a difference. Comer has held hearings on Biden. It hasn’t mattered.
What Tulsi put out there doesn’t have the juice in the details to rile the base. I don’t think she does either. She’s on the outs with trump for talking out of turn. He’s been clear he doesn’t value her advice. I suppose she had to make a contribution to the cause.
MAGA is not a monolith. I don’t see the folks locked in on Epstein saying “oh well” to jump in line behind Tulsi who appears to be doing nothing.
She may well want to try to claw back Trump’s approval with this. I still think that if things get really hot for the administration that they will grab at anything they can. It reminds me of the movie, “Witness for the Prosecution”, where Charles Laughton spoke of Tyrone Power’s character who was being prosecuted for the death of an elderly woman who befriended him. His comment about the circumstantial evidence surrounding the character was that he was “Like a drowning man clutching a razor blade.”…LOL. That fits this scenario perfectly…
Possibly on Obama, but I rather think there’s a good chance that they share the moral outrage of so many on this forum, and would rather see The List exposed than Obama dragged across their flatscreens for months on end.
And to be real about it, Trump’s tacticians know that whoever controls the accelerator and the brake controls the narrative. But WE control the accelerator on The Epstein List, not they, for the simple reason that many MAGA types share the moral outrage expressed here.
Sorry if you don’t believe that, but I think there’s plenty of evidence they do.
The real issue here is whether Obama is an emotionally satisfying and familiar enough target to pry the Epstein outrage from their “cold dead hands”. That doesn’t mean the Epstein issue will go away completely, but there are some that will be further motivated by a potential Obama investigation and prosecution. Eventually, things get so chaotic and the waters so full of political chum that their base loses focus, which can only entrench Trump further. Sadly, he is their North Star.
Respectfully, we don’t know how many will follow the piper in pursuit of a long attack on Obama. You’re right, some will go that way rather than admit that their North Star has moved off the Pole.
But the long game against Obama sucks up resources and involves twisting many arms - more work than twisting cornhead grassley’s “kernel.” I’m suggesting the long investigation is a resource sink for them, labor intensive, and historically, limited.
But MAGA heads are used to fast gratification, and with many of them calling for the conspiracy they were all promised to be revealed to them now that it is on the AG's desk, in sight and within grasp, I think we have more to gain by pressing ahead on releasing The Epstein List.
My guess is that when the MAGAtistas see something whizzing by faster than the slow train to jail Obama, they will follow it. Like owners of Teslas, they crave speed. They seek thrills, not a long sitdown in a conference room. The hearings have always been to distract us, not to interest MAGA.
As for Bondi, she may receive a Trump pardon for her crimes, which a blanket pardon testifies she has committed; but to continue to practice as an attorney after Trump and Company are out of this business, she will have to avoid destroying evidence, suppressing evidence, tampering with evidence, and many other crimes she apparently has not yet committed in the office of the AG.
But it is a factor that may lead her to think twice before committing an act that could rob her of her license, her practice, her future as anything but another agonized face at the mall looking for bargains.
I keep coming back to the lawsuit filed against Trump in 2016 accusing him and Epstein of raping a teen girl years earlier. The case was filed several times, never succeeded in gaining any traction, and it sounded like the accuser finally dropped it due to threats of harm she received. Why has that story never gained traction? Her claims in the lawsuit were horrific.
It's extremely sad, but people (not us, them) don't care. He's been convicted by a jury of his peers of sexual assault. He bragged about walking in on naked teenaged girls at his pageants. He bragged about grabbing women you-know-where. He has normalized behavior that is both vile and criminal. This new scandal is just more distraction. We really should get back to the business of defending our democracy, and protecting his current victims from harm.
One virtue of going after The Epstein List is that it doesn’t look like you’re going after the hero of MAGA. It looks like MAGA, led by that virtue queen, Pam Bondo, with the full ethos of the MAGA Attorney General, will be able to expose the conspiracy that Trump kept promising them. THEIR goal is within their reach, but now Trump is saying, “Wait! Stop!” And Bondo is behaving rather strangely…
First, I believe his supporters are catching on to his cover up of his relationship with Epstein, and aren’t about to let it go. Apparently they feel betrayed by his lies concerning his close friendship and what others have said about them. Second, the information that’s being spread by the WSJ opens their eyes and minds to the possibilities of his interest in young girls. I think that’s the one crime they feel is against their beliefs.
At least in theory — His immunity is for official acts. There isn’t immunity from personal lawsuits but they have to wait until he is out of office.
IMO, he will regret the one against WSJ. His assertions are full of holes like Swiss cheese. • His reputation has been damaged? Doubtful considering the E Jean Carroll case and more than 2 dozen other allegations and on and on.
• He and Epstein weren’t friends? Oh, my. Maybe that is a matter of opinion. In 2019 he said they had a falling out 15 yrs before. Apparently after he bought property Epstein also tried to buy, 2004. Epstein spoke with Michael Wolff extensively on their friendship. 100 hrs of audio.
I doubt the Epstein thing will lead to questioning or removal of the president or anything in the White House. He's exceedingly crafty. He may lose some of his base, but not all of them. He could lose a couple of R Congressmen, but not all of them. He will devise yet another lie about whatever it is that he sees as helpful to himself. I'm afraid I have lost faith in our Congress. I do not rejoice in the Epstein thing because I believe we will all just move on to the next outrage. I am a Boomer who has never voted for the Republican in the White House and continue to be deeply saddened by the state of our democracy due to this president and his various boot-lickers in and out of Congress. A convicted felon as president. Such a disgrace.
The felon's followers are fine with children being forcibly separated from their parents by masked ICE thugs.
They are fine with tens of thousands of children dying from starvation and and lack of medical care after the dismantling of USAID.
They are fine with their own children being at risk from preventable diseases because they won't vaccinate them.
They are fine with children not having school lunches or health insurance.
They are fine with children being at risk of being shot at school and in other public places.
What Epstein and others did is reprehensible, yes, but how could the felon's supporters have completely disregarded all these other harmful, devastating acts perpetrated against children?
This potential 'last straw' for the felon was a hell of a long time in coming.
I don't think the "last straw" has actually come yet. Sure, some of his MAGA conspiracy acolytes will fall by the wayside. But the question really is how will the majority of his fans react? Most of them have been living for a long time with the cognitive dissonance wrought by their knowledge of his depravity and their "support" of him. This particular case is no revelation. They've known all along he's entangled up to his eyeballs with Epstein. I suspect the only thing that will deter them from continued "support" is boredom. This reality-TV based world has a limited shelf life.
More like a brick on top of other discontent by other factions. The podcasters & influencers know DJT has a specific expiration date, 2027 and want to $urvive. The ones he relies on to amplify him in that world. A symbiotic relationship.
What we think they believe, know or should is not relevant. We are seldom exposed to the same opinions / “news” they are. This is based on child sex trafficking but is largely about the power of elites & trump being caught breaking a major promise to a single issue fervent slice of maga (about 10%). Then insulting them for being angry — as pointed out by their trusted “sources.” Acting as an “elite”. Alex Jones 😊 said on his show to DJT: You ain’t the pope & you can’t excommunicate people.
In DJT’s first term he chose federal prosecutor, Alex Acosta, for Labor Sec. The guy who waived federal charges related to child sex trafficking against Epstein in 2008 and let Epstein plead it down to 1 state charge 2 counts. His appointment generated a big outcry. Dems were furious as were others. In 2019 Acosta resigned despite DJT’s support; Epstein was charged by SDNY & died in prison — all this happened within about a month while DJT was president and running for a 2nd term. He needed to change the narrative. He amplified & redirected growing conspiracy theories through the mouthpieces who made big $$ off conspiracies.
A whole new crop of podcaster popped up during Covid making tons of $$. He lost the election blamed the cabal. This Q branch of maga was at Jan6. He ran again, won and it seemed like he was going to keep his promise. A simple promise to open the files & the client list. The podcasters hyped it. A group of them went to a Bondi photo op event & received binders “Volume 1”. They were played for fools. There was almost nothing new except a list of evidence. They had some ‘splaining to do for the listeners.
Bondi pivoted blamed the FBI and ordered Kash Patel to deliver the entire file to her & “conduct and investigation” of why she received partial info. She said on Faux News while being asked about the client list, “It’s on my desk.” When the 2 page memo came out the thing really blew up. It may diminish. Bondi may get the blame. But conspiracy theories do not die & the world of maga podcasters & influencers was powerful enough to put Bongino and Kash Patel in the jobs they hold now.
Yep, hence the 'potential' last straw.
Your point is well taken, as the latest scandal sucks the oxygen out of the room, our Democracy is nearly gone. What ever brings him down can't be fast enough for architects and players of Project 2025 that are embedded and controlling "their new government". Trump was the tool and useful idiot they no longer need. With Steven Miller leading way as the new chief of staff, and their young VP with the picture perfect family stepping up and putting the country back together in their undemocratic image. He will become their new hero. Just thinking while it's still legal, stay tuned.
I disagree that Epstein is a diversion. It triggered the strongest “yelp” from Trump we’ve seen in months.
The objective of this fight is to right all the wrongs M. Franklin listed.
But as a point of attack, we have made no headway in separating his base from him by going after his base for being wrong.
Frontal attacks on his base have been unsuccessful since before Trump thought of running the first time. If you have Trumpies in your family tree, then you know, you cannot shake them out. They cling to the roots that feed them.
But when they feel the sting of Epstein and realize they’ve been fed crap, they will let go and act with the “sense God gave a little green apple,” the sense to blush in season.
Yup. All true. Let’s consider how information travels to them. It is not through us or media we consume. When Bondi did the big photo op for a few select maga podcasters & influencers they hyped it in anticipation of big things promised being delivered. Then they had to explain to their audiences why there was almost NOTHING new to tell them. If we just substitute a source we trust for theirs and think about hearing this about an administration we trusted … Then it happened a 2nd time with the memo saying ‘no client list’.
Conspiracy theories do not die. They’ve waited years, since the 1st Epstein case, 2008. Who did DJT choose in his 1st term to be Sec of Labor? The federal prosecutor who undercut the victims by signing a rotten deal agreeing not to charge & to a slap on the wrist by the state of FL. The Dems and general outrage eventually forced him to resign - in the same time period SDNY found a way to charge Epstein, he was in prison & died before a trial.
Donnie needed to turn the tide on this story as he ran for a 2nd term. He fed the conspiracies & aimed them at the Dems. During covid a lot of people fell down the rabbit hole into “saving the children” conspiracies. They turned to non-traditional media. Even if he loses ‘only’ 10% of his base as Bannon fears over this, it is a big problem.
Plus, in flailing & failing mode DJT has attacked the people he relied on. Listeners are hearing what he’s really saying. The “flawed vessel” “chosen” to right these wrongs has attacked them & said to forget about it. Forget? After 17 yrs. 🙃 They got a glimpse of him turning on them as a powerful elite. Some of their other grievances are also bubbling up. Also in play, the voices making $$ on this know Donnie doesn’t have long before he becomes irrelevant. They can’t afford to lose their audiences. But they’d rather not annoy him.
Martha…You’re absolutely correct…that said, my greatest fear is the “Last Straw” will just blow away harmlessly…like all the others!
WHO are these non-humans?
The tRump Administration …NO…actually it’s the tRump Criminal Cabal et al!!!
💯!!
Yes, but all the things we hear & know barely permeate their world.
I've been pondering the Greek level tragedy of Trump's insistence on branding in light of his signature on the image described in the Wall St. Journal article.
Every stimulus check had his signature on it.
https://www.rcfp.org/trump-covid-checks-abc-news/
The association, once people see the image described, will be unavoidable.
I don't think he dodges out of this one.
Karma.
He’s known for saying other people does stuff he’s doing. Also for when he very specifically denies things it usually means he did them. I understand his lawsuit says that:
A. He was never a friend of Epstein — I can understand that ‘friend’ can be hard to prove.
B. He doesn’t draw etc. — This is too easy to prove a lie.
There are plenty of photos and other things refute A including Michale Wolff’s reporting with about 100 hours of audio of Epstein talking about their friendship of 10 yrs. Right down to details of how they would prowl for women together.
Regarding B doodle drawings are popping up with his signature. Here is one as verified by the person who requested it for charity auction. (Maybe he’ll say he just signed them 🤡)
Others: a tree with dollar bills falling off of it, signed “Donald Trump,” with a gold sharpie sold for $8,500, drawing of the Empire State building sold for $16,000 at Julien’s Auctions in Los Angeles in 2017, a minimalist sketch of the New York City skyline with a gold marker signature sold for $29,184, 2017
One of the drawings that was auctioned in 2004 has subsequently been donated back to another charity and will be up for auction in September. The winning bidder will receive what Lockard describes as the signed letter of authentication from Trump.
“This should raise a pretty penny,” said Lockard, who is planning on starting the bidding at $10,000. “It’s a great doodle.”
https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/18/politics/trump-drawing-charity-auction
as the saying goes, every accusation a confession
It’s amazing that people like Nick Fuentes are publicly dumping him! But even if he is moved aside by Congress (still doubtful at this point). Project 2025 will live on through all the appointments he has made. Holding onto hope for 2026 - that is assuming we can have free and fair elections!
The Traitors are working day and night to make sure there are no more actual “elections”.
Yep, they are. Just ask Marc Elias.
The men on Epstein’s list, the ones other than Trump, will still be on the list.
It isn't just Trump who wants the list suppressed. It is the wealthy movers and shakers in the Empire State and environs who are afraid of being exposed. That is cause for hope; the vulnerability won’t go away after Trump succumbs to swollen joints and sclerosis of the blowhole.
I respectfully submit, T&Company are in this fight because of sex, money, bribery, blackmail, and extortion. His base are in it because they believe T&Company’s propaganda and are focused on getting rid of these evils, which is the message of that propaganda.
Influencers check which way the wind is blowing, then post accordingly. They need the clicks to stay relevant.
That’s true. In this situation the trouble began when DJT and Bondi said they were delivering on his promise. The handpicked collection of influencers & podcasters hyped the event; posed in the photo op; opened their binders only to find there was almost nothing new to feed their waiting audiences.
Bondi pivoted (Feb 27th) and ordered Kash Patel to give her the rest of the file and investigate why she didn’t receive all the info the 1st time.
Round 2 was worse. The big “new information”: No client list exists.
Then the whole thing started going sideways cheered on by Elon when the EV tax credit was wiped out with more old news. (That trump is in the file.)
They’ve had some trouble explaining why they aren’t delivering to their audiences and pivoting back to DJT is the good guy. They’ll never trust Bondi.
1) When the Nazis turn on you, that’s bad news for Trump. Half the Jan 6 insurrectionists are Nazis and they love Nick Fuentes. 2) I worry that the 1000 FBI agents who have been tasked to comb through the rooms full of Epstein documents, 24/7 to redact every mention of Trump, will make accountability nearly impossible. Ham-handed, yes, but who knows, maybe a disheartened FBI agent will blow the whistle? 3) Yes I worry what Trump will do if he is actually outed (I’ve no doubt he participated in the rapes. What was he doing on the island so many times? Getting a sun tan? 4) My biggest worry is that he’ll start nuking some country when he’s finally cornered and bereft of cultists, not to mention 79% of Americans. He is pathological, and can’t bear the truth: he’s a loser.
"He is pathological, and can’t bear the truth: he’s a loser."
Exactly so. I'm convinced he'll do anything to spare himself from a fully conscious realization of that truth.
Even the esteemed FBI has been ruined.
Sen. Ron Wyden of the Senate finance committee has some financial info from documents gathered under the Biden administration. He knows there are more but is being stymied by this administration. This is what he said on the floor of the Senate:
https://www.finance.senate.gov/ranking-members-news/wyden-releases-new-information-on-financing-of-jeffrey-epsteins-operations-by-billionaire-leon-black-seeks-documents-from-trump-administration
Grand jury records are not complete, are under court purview, and are seldom released with names. And “pertinent” is the big out for Trump and Bondi. Actually DOJ investigation records are the files that need to be released. He tricked you!
What Grand Jury records?
In FLORIDA, wasn't it just a plea deal that allowed him out of jail to conduct 'business'?
In NEW YORK, Epstein was quickly DEAD - which makes one wonder WHY.
CRAIG UNGER investigated, researched & wrote extensively - available from your public library if you still have one.
MAXWELL earned his $$$ from publishing, but was connected to international intelligence organizations & met with an untimely death.
Recently posted was a comment by a DEMOCRAT that he has been following the $$$ for years - I can't quickly locate his name, but the only EVIDENCE that matters is the MONEY! Who paid EPSTEIN?
A COMMENT POSTED:
ANY ADULT having sex with a minor should be in prison; no matter who it is!
We got rid of Nixon for much less..... Why are we not removing this thing from office....NOW
These were not women. They were CHILDREN.
There is no excuse for not prosecuting crimes against children.
That victim was 13 at the time.
She was a girl at the time
Both were 13 yrs old
Don’t say “ woman”
She was a girl
i’ll bet $100 at least one of our supreme court judges are on that list.
My granddaughter is 13 and I can't imagine her having to go through this at the hands of these predators 🤬 And please let's not call the victims women, they were children.
Get this predator out of office
For the record - teenage girls are not democrats or republicans - they are minors….. and they were victims, and not a hoax.
I don't understand how anyone, male, female, mother, father,Dem, Rep, rich , poor , can cover up for a paedofile. In what world is it acceptable?
In her testimony she quotes Trump as saying he wants her because she looks like his daughter. Such a gross human being.
At that time, this young CHILD received so much HATE MAIL that she withdrew - who can blame her? LITTLE KID!
JEFFREY EPSTEIN operated a sick & perverted enterprise for which the WEALTHY ENTITLED PERVERTS benefitted!
This goes beyond PERVERSION & involves NATIONAL SECURITY!
JPMORGAN CHASE knew what EPSTEIN was doing & failed to report it, just as they did with BERNIE MADOFF & covered it up.
https://youtu.be/YNhOKuP7xrw?si=KyD1VVKHHKzuGvRD
Excerpt from CRAIG UNGER's book indicates PUTIN has EPSTEIN's VIDEOS....
American Kompromat: How the KGB Cultivated Donald Trump, and Related Tales of Sex, Greed, Power, and Treachery
READ Craig Unger's book(s) available from your public library:
excerpt:
• How the Epstein-Ghislaine Maxwell sex-trafficking operation provided a source and marketplace for sexual kompromat.
• How the Epstein-Maxwell ring helped enable young women with possible ties to Russian intelligence to gain access to the highest levels of Silicon Valley and the worlds of artificial intelligence, supercomputers, and the internet. This, at a time when Vladimir Putin has asserted, “Whoever becomes the leader in this sphere [artificial intelligence] will become the ruler of the world.”
American Kompromat: How the KGB Cultivated Donald Trump, and Related Tales of Sex, Greed, Power, and Treachery Hardcover – January 26, 2021 by Craig Unger (Author)
RUSSIA HAS THE VIDEOS!
• How John Mark Dougan, a former deputy sheriff in Mar-a-Lago’s Palm Beach County, says he acquired 478 videos confiscated from the Jeffrey Epstein investigation, fled to Moscow, became only the fourth American to win asylum in Russia, and immediately gained access to Putin’s inner circle, showing the ongoing power that comes from kompromat and how its value is highest before it is “used.”
FLIGHTS have been documented:
Jeffrey Epstein’s island: What really happened there?
Accusers say billionaire’s private paradise of Little St James in U.S. Virgin Islands was centre of international sex trafficking ring
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/jeffrey-epstein-island-where-virginia-giuffre-visitors-b2740242.html
TRUMP was bailed out financially by RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS who paid inflated prices for his real estate because he was such a poor businessman that he bankrupted CASINOS.
FOLLOW THE EPSTEIN MONEY! That will reveal part of EPSTEIN's scheme. CRAIG UNGER investigated & wrote extensively about MAXWELL's INTELLIGENCE CONNECTIONS & his untimely death. There's more that we need to know about EPSTEIN's $$$ !
PLEASE KEEP ASKING!
JEFFREY EPSTEIN ran an INTERNATIONAL CHILD SEX TRAFFICKING RING!
PERVERTS were REPEATEDLY raping CHILDREN!
That's what they PAID FOR!
The FBI cleaned out EPSTEIN's ISLAND: Where is that information?
KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS & ASK WHERE EPSTEIN'S MONEY CAME FROM!
WHAT PERVERTS PAID TO RAPE CHILDREN?
JP MORGAN CHASE KNEW & DID NOT REPORT EPSTEIN, JUST AS THEY PROTECTED BERNIE MADOFF! JAMIE DDIMON KNEW!
I think the comments on the financial trail you are referencing belong to Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon. There is reporting on it. This is what he said on the Senate floor:
https://www.finance.senate.gov/ranking-members-news/wyden-releases-new-information-on-financing-of-jeffrey-epsteins-operations-by-billionaire-leon-black-seeks-documents-from-trump-administration
There was a state grand jury for the charges in Florida. The transcript was released. I think DeSantis had to push through a law to exempt that case.
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/florida-judge-releases-grand-jury-records-2008-jeffrey-epstein-criminal-case/61476582
I don’t know if there was a Federal Grand jury in FL. It was a very weird situation.
“In 2008, Epstein cut a deal with South Florida federal prosecutors that allowed him to escape more severe federal charges and instead plead guilty to state charges of procuring a person under 18 for prostitution and solicitation of prostitution. He was sentenced to 1.5 years in the Palm Beach County jail system, during which he was allowed to go to his office almost daily as part of a work-release program, followed by a year of house arrest. He was required to register as a sex offender.”
I fully agree. Our victory is in the details. We mustn’t let Trump and Company run the narrative.
WE know what the CATHOLIC CHURCH did to VICTIMS of SEXUAL ABUSE, their HEALING lasts a lifetime even though they had families & remained silent.
EPSTEIN's INTERNATIONAL CHILD SEX TRAFFICKING RING included CHILDREN with no support, no family connections. ABANDONED CHILDREN who were SEXUALLY ABUSED by WEALTHY PERVERTS.
From the testimony of VICTIMS, we know that these CHILDREN were sexually assaulted SEVERAL TIMES A DAY by WEALTHY PERVERTS who paid EPSTEIN for the privilege.
Does it matter that they were HIGH RANKING PERVERTS?
Does it matter that they were WEALTHY PERVERTS?
How morally depraved must you be to SEXUALLY ABUSE A CHILD?
IT'S OVERDUE FOR MAGA & TRUMPERS to question loyalty over outright perversion.
SEX WITH A 13 YEAR OLD?
KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS!
WHO FUNDED EPSTEIN'S INTERNATIONAL CHILD SEX TRAFFICKING RING?
JPMORGAN CHASE & JAMIE DIMON KNEW....& they covered it up!
How is raping a 13 year old defensible?
As I read what you’ve given us, I believe I agree with you; I also admire the comprehensive list of those who may be on The List.
Respectfully, many MAGA heads agree with you about sex crimes. But they want the conspiracy that is promised to them by The Epstein List to be revealed because prominent Democrats and Coastal Elites are no doubt on the list…
All attacks on Trump for his conduct failed to get their attention, because they could write it off as another attack on their God, their source of nourishment.
But the conspiracy they seek is run by Dems, Coastals, and those always elusive Deep State Operatives. Who knows what’s true, until we see the List?
If some Dems and NY Bigwigs get hurt in this, it will be worth their reputations to get at Trump and Company - the men he controls through bribery, extortion, or shared “tastes” in girls.
And in that, MAGA heads must decide, are they in or out? I respectfully suggest it is in our interest to make them decide. That is, to split them.
There are also other records they deny exist. Under the Biden administration staff for Senate Finance Committee gathered some of it. They were allowed to review at Treasury.
https://www.finance.senate.gov/ranking-members-news/wyden-releases-new-information-on-financing-of-jeffrey-epsteins-operations-by-billionaire-leon-black-seeks-documents-from-trump-administration
Sen. Marsha Blackburn of TN is a trump and Bondi fan to the core has been on this for yrs and shut down at every turn. She too is calling for the financial records to be released.
There is no cavalry coming to save us. There is only us. And we are late to the battle and with seemingly clueless generals.
WE are expected to be the Cavalry but with no swift horses or loaded cannons.
Gandhi’s story of non violence in the face of India’s struggle against British Imperialism can show us what’s to be done. We sure could use an American “Gandhi” to lead the way.
We have no division.
Agreed. It’s a lot like we’re Lincolns trying to get the McClellans to move.
The Access Hollywood tapes and other evidence that showed the depth of his depravity brought us hope. None of it mattered. I fear the same thing will happen herr. We see what a disgusting person he is, but will it matter? I think he will find a way to lie his way out of this. I'm sure he could find someone to help him alter the records. The people around him are as depraved as he is and will do what it takes to keep him and themselves in power.
The time was not yet come. Plus, no political leaders hammered on “access hellywood.” They were all above using “reality TV” claims as a point of attack. The source lacked the required “ethical” credentials. They took the high road. Even Ms. Harris took the high road. Where did it get us?
Now’s the time to hammer on Epstein’s depravity and the relationship to Trump and the others on the List.
Pam Bundy or Bondy or whatever her name is, has some ethos as AG. She said it was on her desk…a tactical error on the part of T&Company. Even Pam Bondo's Attorney General’s ethos is better than access hellywood’s.
Are you kidding me? Number 1=it’s a cult. Number 2=Teflon TACO has never suffered the consequences for any of his evil deeds from the time he was born. Number 3=As proven by our past election most Americans are selfish, lazy and misinformed. TACO will skate on this.
Nothing is more disgusting than Pam Bondi and Karoline Leavitt as women and mothers trying to help men powerful men cover up child / human trafficking
Abuse to women
Child sexual abuse .
Women who stab other women in the back are the lowest of the low…
Especially not protecting children
Likely what is released to the public will be redacted to only show the names of Democrats or the release will be stalled until it stops being a hot topic.
I mean…we can hope for his resignation and removal, but do you really want JD Vance as the next POTUS? Dear G-D… but in the meantime, Trump’s administration is working overtime to change the subject. Exhibit #1…Tulsi Gabbard calling for the prosecution of Barack Obama. The shifting target of these authoritarians is another canary in the coal mine for democracy’s demise. His base would be relieved, I’m sure, to have Obama as the target for their insatiable rage.
WOW, that would be horrible, and Mike Thompson for VP. OMG‼️
The Speaker is next to the Veep in line of succession, but if the Veep becomes President, the Speaker does not become Vice President.
MAGA CULT is uninformed, poorly educated BLIND, BRAINWASHED Followers who exclude FACTS & TRUTH!
FOX NEWS = FAKE NEWS LIARS paid $787 MILLION for their ELECTION LIES & these DIM WITS haven't figured out that IT'S ALL LIES! The ELECTION was not rigged & the CULT continues to support ELECTION DENIERS! Just how STUPID can you be?
They promote CONSPIRACY THEORIES even when they're easily disproven or irrational.
WE need to understand in order to DEFEAT!
JOHN DEAN wrote the article below in 2017 that still resonates....
excerpt:
Authoritarians do remain a minority, but with non-voters and anti-Hillary Clinton voters, Trump pulled off a historic upset. It appears his core supporters remain faithful—regardless of what he does or doesn’t do. So, I asked Bob Altemeyer, what if anything would get through to the Trump supporters, given the fact Trump has shown himself, so far, totally incompetent as President of the United States. Set forth below in italics is material from Bob, who is now enjoying his retirement.
It took many months for Americans to stop supporting President Nixon during Watergate, and even at the end he could count on a hard knot of supporters who would believe him, as he said to [his chief of staff] H. R. Haldeman, because they wanted to. (NYT, 11/22/1974, p. 20). A few days before he resigned, 24% of a Gallup sample approved of the way Nixon was doing his job, including 38% of the Republicans polled.
Most of Donald Trump’s supporters are probably people whom social psychologists call authoritarian followers, because they are so supportive of the authorities they consider legitimate. These are the people Trump was talking about when he famously bragged that he could shoot somebody in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue and it would make no difference to his backers. They are the people who so willingly took the “loyalty pledge” at Trump rallies in the early primaries—even calling on Trump to “do the swearing” when he had skipped it.
We know enough about authoritarian supporters from research, and history, to know it will be very hard to change their minds about the leader they adore.
They are extremely ethnocentric, dividing the world sharply into people in their in-group, and automatically disliking all others. They feel politicians who promote minority rights and immigration discriminate against them. Donald Trump tells them they are right. He is their champion.
They are highly dogmatic. They get their ideas from others in the in-group, especially from their leader, not from evidence and logic. They say there is no evidence that will make them change their minds. They’re quite comfortable believing “alternate facts.”
They get great satisfaction from being part of a large movement. Being in a cohesive crowd at rallies thrills them because they silently tell one another, just by being there, that they are powerful and right. They create an echo chamber that reinforces the belief that all the good people think like they do.
They severely limit their sources of information. They get the news that they want to get. This also produces an echo chamber when the news sources they trust are copying each other and relaying Trump’s message.
They have highly compartmentalized minds. When an unpleasant truth forces its way into their awareness, they do not try to integrate the other things they believe with it. Instead they put it in a box and isolate it from the rest of their thinking, which proceeds as if the truth never existed.
Put all this together and you get an idea how hard it will be to change their minds about Donald Trump.
One can expect some of Trump’s followers to waver if the months ahead are thick with damaging revelations like those that brought down the Nixon White House. But a repeat of “Watergate-type scandals” may not damage Trump as much as they did Nixon.
https://verdict.justia.com/2017/07/07/altemeyer-trumps-supporters
I hope the base fractures.
Tulsi can call for anything. DOJ did not comment on the docs she claimed to turn over to them re: Obama’s administration. FBI is investigating Comey and Brennan. She’s called for them to be charged also. I doubt adding Obama will make a difference. Comer has held hearings on Biden. It hasn’t mattered.
What Tulsi put out there doesn’t have the juice in the details to rile the base. I don’t think she does either. She’s on the outs with trump for talking out of turn. He’s been clear he doesn’t value her advice. I suppose she had to make a contribution to the cause.
MAGA is not a monolith. I don’t see the folks locked in on Epstein saying “oh well” to jump in line behind Tulsi who appears to be doing nothing.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/06/17/gabbard-trump-00411685
She may well want to try to claw back Trump’s approval with this. I still think that if things get really hot for the administration that they will grab at anything they can. It reminds me of the movie, “Witness for the Prosecution”, where Charles Laughton spoke of Tyrone Power’s character who was being prosecuted for the death of an elderly woman who befriended him. His comment about the circumstantial evidence surrounding the character was that he was “Like a drowning man clutching a razor blade.”…LOL. That fits this scenario perfectly…
Possibly on Obama, but I rather think there’s a good chance that they share the moral outrage of so many on this forum, and would rather see The List exposed than Obama dragged across their flatscreens for months on end.
And to be real about it, Trump’s tacticians know that whoever controls the accelerator and the brake controls the narrative. But WE control the accelerator on The Epstein List, not they, for the simple reason that many MAGA types share the moral outrage expressed here.
Sorry if you don’t believe that, but I think there’s plenty of evidence they do.
The real issue here is whether Obama is an emotionally satisfying and familiar enough target to pry the Epstein outrage from their “cold dead hands”. That doesn’t mean the Epstein issue will go away completely, but there are some that will be further motivated by a potential Obama investigation and prosecution. Eventually, things get so chaotic and the waters so full of political chum that their base loses focus, which can only entrench Trump further. Sadly, he is their North Star.
Agreed.
Respectfully, we don’t know how many will follow the piper in pursuit of a long attack on Obama. You’re right, some will go that way rather than admit that their North Star has moved off the Pole.
But the long game against Obama sucks up resources and involves twisting many arms - more work than twisting cornhead grassley’s “kernel.” I’m suggesting the long investigation is a resource sink for them, labor intensive, and historically, limited.
But MAGA heads are used to fast gratification, and with many of them calling for the conspiracy they were all promised to be revealed to them now that it is on the AG's desk, in sight and within grasp, I think we have more to gain by pressing ahead on releasing The Epstein List.
My guess is that when the MAGAtistas see something whizzing by faster than the slow train to jail Obama, they will follow it. Like owners of Teslas, they crave speed. They seek thrills, not a long sitdown in a conference room. The hearings have always been to distract us, not to interest MAGA.
As for Bondi, she may receive a Trump pardon for her crimes, which a blanket pardon testifies she has committed; but to continue to practice as an attorney after Trump and Company are out of this business, she will have to avoid destroying evidence, suppressing evidence, tampering with evidence, and many other crimes she apparently has not yet committed in the office of the AG.
But it is a factor that may lead her to think twice before committing an act that could rob her of her license, her practice, her future as anything but another agonized face at the mall looking for bargains.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the guy is finally brought down by a conspiracy theory that he has done everything he can to inflame?
Ahhh, karma!
But what’s concerning, of course, is how cruel and vindictive the felon will be in attempting to create a diversion. We need to be on guard.
I keep coming back to the lawsuit filed against Trump in 2016 accusing him and Epstein of raping a teen girl years earlier. The case was filed several times, never succeeded in gaining any traction, and it sounded like the accuser finally dropped it due to threats of harm she received. Why has that story never gained traction? Her claims in the lawsuit were horrific.
It's extremely sad, but people (not us, them) don't care. He's been convicted by a jury of his peers of sexual assault. He bragged about walking in on naked teenaged girls at his pageants. He bragged about grabbing women you-know-where. He has normalized behavior that is both vile and criminal. This new scandal is just more distraction. We really should get back to the business of defending our democracy, and protecting his current victims from harm.
One virtue of going after The Epstein List is that it doesn’t look like you’re going after the hero of MAGA. It looks like MAGA, led by that virtue queen, Pam Bondo, with the full ethos of the MAGA Attorney General, will be able to expose the conspiracy that Trump kept promising them. THEIR goal is within their reach, but now Trump is saying, “Wait! Stop!” And Bondo is behaving rather strangely…
Such opportunities don’t come often.
First, I believe his supporters are catching on to his cover up of his relationship with Epstein, and aren’t about to let it go. Apparently they feel betrayed by his lies concerning his close friendship and what others have said about them. Second, the information that’s being spread by the WSJ opens their eyes and minds to the possibilities of his interest in young girls. I think that’s the one crime they feel is against their beliefs.
They also despise "elites," and they've finally come to realize that the Epstein enterprise was a very exclusive elite (albeit nonpartisan) club.
How is it Trump is immune from prosecution, yet he retains the right to use the courts to sue his critics?
At least in theory — His immunity is for official acts. There isn’t immunity from personal lawsuits but they have to wait until he is out of office.
IMO, he will regret the one against WSJ. His assertions are full of holes like Swiss cheese. • His reputation has been damaged? Doubtful considering the E Jean Carroll case and more than 2 dozen other allegations and on and on.
• He and Epstein weren’t friends? Oh, my. Maybe that is a matter of opinion. In 2019 he said they had a falling out 15 yrs before. Apparently after he bought property Epstein also tried to buy, 2004. Epstein spoke with Michael Wolff extensively on their friendship. 100 hrs of audio.
• He never drew? It’s not his language? At the same time he & Epstein were ‘not friends’ he was providing his doodles to charity auctions. At least some were signed in gold marker/Sharpie. https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-old-drawings-resurface-denies-131321640.html
I doubt the Epstein thing will lead to questioning or removal of the president or anything in the White House. He's exceedingly crafty. He may lose some of his base, but not all of them. He could lose a couple of R Congressmen, but not all of them. He will devise yet another lie about whatever it is that he sees as helpful to himself. I'm afraid I have lost faith in our Congress. I do not rejoice in the Epstein thing because I believe we will all just move on to the next outrage. I am a Boomer who has never voted for the Republican in the White House and continue to be deeply saddened by the state of our democracy due to this president and his various boot-lickers in and out of Congress. A convicted felon as president. Such a disgrace.